OR M114 and the NFA Transfer Process

[Tax Stamps]

Have any FFL/SOT's in Oregon received any guidance on how OR Measure 114 affects the NFA transfer process? I ask because after your form 4 has been approved a form 4473 must be accomplished before you take physical possession of the NFA item. Along those lines, on the 4473 item 28 on page 2 of 6 has a box (that's checked) saying no NICS check is required because a background check was completed during the NFA approval process. Before Measure 114 that box was checked and out the door you go.

So, the question that begs is can you just check box 28 and off you go or are you going to be required to have the state issued permit to purchase which requires you go through OSP for your permission slip (and another background check) before you can complete the 4473 process and take possession of your NFA item? In the pre M114 world the answer would be no. Post M114 I'm not so sure anymore.

No question I'm not the only one out there with F4's waiting approval that may be affected by this silliness after the votes certified Dec 8th. I also understand it's going straight to the courts too but that doesn't give me much comfort in the short term. Putting cans aside for a moment, the thought of a 5 figure MG being stuck in the M114 funk is VERY troubling....

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[Hooyah DeepSea]

I have been assured by the shop I'm getting my can through, that the 4473 i'll fill out for delivery will not be affected by Measure 114 in any way. Now hopefully my can should be received in the first week of December (based on the timeline for similar purchases from this shop) but none-the-less, they said that "the measure, whether passed or not, will not have any affect on the receipt / delivery of any NFA item.

I'm trying to remain optimistic, as it is getting close.

 

[pogi]

I believe my FFL said I was GTG when my permission letter came in since I purchased the NFA items directly from him and I would not need a 4473. More probably than not he was referencing the properly checked box in the OP. I could be wrong in what I heard though. Still have a couple of months, unfortunately.

 

[pdxcat]

If I am not mistaken, there is one variable: if the NFA paperwork is by an individual, the 4473 is not necessary. if the NFA item was purchased by a trust, then a member of the trust must submit to a background check via 4473 before taking possession of the item once the dealer gets the stamp back.

Not sure if the rules have changed. Has been a few years since i dealt with BATFE

 

[Hooyah DeepSea]

I have patently decided to stop worrying about it; it'll get here when it gets here, and I will receive it when I receive it.

 

[Member 53328]

If I am not mistaken, there is one variable: if the NFA paperwork is by an individual, the 4473 is not necessary. if the NFA item was purchased by a trust, then a member of the trust must submit to a background check via 4473 before taking possession of the item once the dealer gets the stamp back.

Not sure if the rules have changed. Has been a few years since i dealt with BATFE

Last suppressor I bought as an "individual" I had to fill out a 4473 after the tax stamp got approved.

 

[pdxcat]

Sorry, Yes you still fill the 4473 but the dealer can check the box 20 declaring that a NICS check is not required.
Basically you fill the form, but it is not entered in the queue with OSP

Different when purchased by a trust. then the dealer has to run the trustee through NICS because BATFE did not run a background check on any individual persons during the approval process for the stamp.

 

[User 1234]

Sorry, Yes you still fill the 4473 but the dealer can check the box 20 declaring that a NICS check is not required.
Basically you fill the form, but it is not entered in the queue with OSP

Different when purchased by a trust. then the dealer has to run the trustee through NICS because BATFE did not run a background check on any individual persons during the approval process for the stamp.

The ATF does (well they delegate it to the FBI) run a background check on the trust's Responsible Person during the Form 1/4 process. This is why the trust submits a Responsible Person Questionnaire and the RP's fingerprints as part of the NFA process.

 

[pdxcat]

The ATF does (well they delegate it to the FBI) run a background check on the trust's Responsible Person during the Form 1/4 process. This is why the trust submits a Responsible Person Questionnaire and the RP's fingerprints as part of the NFA process.

I probably remeber incorrectly or the rules have changed since I have dealt with it. this was the general guidance back when I was in the loop:

Does a Trust need a NICS check under the NFA and GCA?

One of the most common questions Class 3 SOT Dealers ask has finally been addressed by the ATF and should help clear the inconsistent answers given by local ATF offices. Is a NICS check required ...

www.guntrustlawyer.com

even better if NICS is not required for the RP of the trust.

Thanks!

 

[HotRodGuy]

Interesting as I have had to submit prints, picture and RPQ for all my NFA items when registered under my trust.

 

[User 1234]

I believe that 2014 article is obsolete, as it was written prior to the July 2016 changes to the NFA process.

 

[jbett98]

I'm right in the middle of submitting two Form 5's (inheritance) from a gun trust.
I'm the one holding the two items, since I'm the designated trustee and also the executor of the will.
This will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[nammac]

Sorry, Yes you still fill the 4473 but the dealer can check the box 20 declaring that a NICS check is not required.
Basically you fill the form, but it is not entered in the queue with OSP

Different when purchased by a trust. then the dealer has to run the trustee through NICS because BATFE did not run a background check on any individual persons during the approval process for the stamp.

Not true for a trust, I did a trust on a can several weeks ago, filled out 4473, and it was attached to a copy of the tax stamp, and out the door I went, no additional background check…

 

[pdxcat]

Not true for a trust, I did a trust on a can several weeks ago, filled out 4473, and it was attached to a copy of the tax stamp, and out the door I went, no additional background check…

You are correct. Sorry, I forgot about the changes in 2016. I recalled older rules. With the responsible person being fingerprinted and photographed, picking up an NFA item is the same whether it is an individual transfer or a trust. I even did a couple of transfers since the 2016 changes, but I recalled the rules prior to that. I was mistaken

 

[Willysmb]

Greetings all-

I have a different question regarding a post 114 NFA issue.

I have a few firearms I would like to SBR. They are already in my possession. Should I hurry up and submit form 1's by the 8th? I already know that a 4473 is not needed (currently) to do this as a private party.

Or, since I already have the guns, not worry about it and submit the forms when I want to (plan was one per month so it could feel like Christmas for several months in a row later on, lol!).

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Best regards.

WMB

 

[R3dundantC]

Greetings all-

I have a different question regarding a post 114 NFA issue.

I have a few firearms I would like to SBR. They are already in my possession. Should I hurry up and submit form 1's by the 8th? I already know that a 4473 is not needed (currently) to do this as a private party.

Or, since I already have the guns, not worry about it and submit the forms when I want to (plan was one per month so it could feel like Christmas for several months in a row later on, lol!).

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Best regards.

WMB

It's going to have no effect because you are not transferring the gun when you fill out a Form 1. You are making or "manufacturing" a gun

 

[SCARed]

It's going to have no effect because you are not transferring the gun when you fill out a Form 1. You are making or "manufacturing" a gun

You are "making", absolutely NOT "manufacturing".

 

[Cavedweller]

Have any FFL/SOT's in Oregon received any guidance on how OR Measure 114 affects the NFA transfer process? I ask because after your form 4 has been approved a form 4473 must be accomplished before you take physical possession of the NFA item. Along those lines, on the 4473 item 28 on page 2 of 6 has a box (that's checked) saying no NICS check is required because a background check was completed during the NFA approval process. Before Measure 114 that box was checked and out the door you go.

So, the question that begs is can you just check box 28 and off you go or are you going to be required to have the state issued permit to purchase which requires you go through OSP for your permission slip (and another background check) before you can complete the 4473 process and take possession of your NFA item? In the pre M114 world the answer would be no. Post M114 I'm not so sure anymore.

As I understand the measure, if the NFA item is a firearm, you would not be able to buy one without the permit to purchase because a criminal background check in itself is not enough to obtain the permit. In order to get the permit, an applicant must not only pass a criminal background check, but also an investigation by the county sheriff or local police to determine if the applicant is a threat to himself or the community. No criteria are specified in the measure as to how the investigation will be conducted. i.e. what information will be sought and from what sources. That has yet to be established. But according to the law, it is not enough to just pass a background check as we have known it up to now.

OTOH, if the item is not a firearm, I would not expect the process to be affected at all.

That's just my guess after reading the text of the measure several times.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

As I understand the measure, if the NFA item is a firearm, you would not be able to buy one without the permit to purchase because a criminal background check in itself is not enough to obtain the permit. In order to get the permit, an applicant must not only pass a criminal background check, but also an investigation by the county sheriff or local police to determine if the applicant is a threat to himself or the community. No criteria are specified in the measure as to how the investigation will be conducted. i.e. what information will be sought and from what sources. That has yet to be established. But according to the law, it is not enough to just pass a background check as we have known it up to now.

OTOH, if the item is not a firearm, I would not expect the process to be affected at all.

That's just my guess after reading the text of the measure several times.

I still can't figure out if suppressors meet Oregon's definition of a firearm. I've read the law 3 times. Feds consider them firearms, that's without question, but what about OR. Tough one to figure out at this early stage.

 

[Cavedweller]

Feds consider them firearms

I did not know that.