OPSEC, and lack of it

[BKMDNO]

It is true that you should always be aware of who you are dealing with. For example I work for the ATF and surf the internet under the alias of a 12 year old school girl looking for information on illegal guns and stuff. NOT, well maybe?

On that thought, BUZO71 do you mind sending me your address and a copy of you medical marijuana card?

 

[Sun195]

It has always amazed me how far & fast information travels. For example, I once told someone (a casual friend) that I was into shooting. A few weeks later, I met someone at a party who said "you're the one who's into shooting!" - I never met this person before and the only way they could have known was through this friend. I guess I was a bit surprised that this person knew this about me. It didn't help things that he was also a bit sketchy.

Since then I've been careful about who I tell about my various hobbies. I also tend to keep my "gun stuff" out of sight around the house. No sense in letting the world know about it.

 

[Dutchy556]

So I'm the first one to point out that what everyone is talking about here is actually PERSEC, rather than OPSEC?


Unless some of you guys are actually running some sort of covert ops or something?



Cheekiness aside - these are valid concerns to be sure. I consider these things myself as I post here an on other forums and have certainly put enough info out there that one could pretty easily figure out what neighborhood I live in. That said, they're going to have to go to some effort (beyond lurking gun forums) to find my actual address, if they can find it at all. Odds are without a name it will be impossible.

I'm more concerned about someone in my building seeing me loading up gun stuff in the car and talking about it to someone - they'll know what unit I live in (assigned parking). I try do be discrete but you never know...

I mean, someone at the last shoot I went to could have taken down my license plate # and figured out where I live, I didn't know any of the people out there before going... could there have been someone there looking for marks? Seems like a poor victim selection process to paraphrase Ayoob, but sure maybe...

I think about these things but I'm not overly concerned about them, to me the best thing to do is to limit truly personal details... I do not post my full name, address, etc. in a public forum... Beyond that, if you're really concerned don't post because motivated people will find a target one way or another.

When it comes down to it I guess I'm skeptical that there are a lot of folks out there who would choose someone like me, or like most of the posters around here and on other gun forums as a target. We're heavily armed and frequently enough make clear that we're likely to shoot an intruder in the face fist and ask questions later... There are lots of people out there who make good targets who don't have guns that they love so much and spend so much time with that they post pictures of them on the internet.

Not saying there isn't a concern but don't be too paranoid.


As for the whole government knowing thing... you think they don't know already?


ETA again: If it ever gets bad here, like South Africa bad, Argentina bad, Mexico bad, then all of that goes out the window. IMO, until more criminals are really willing to go all out in this country like they are in some of those places and in a more organized way its more likely that a meth head randomly chooses to jack you than a very motivated and savvy professional who selects you as a target over the internet.




Oh, one other thing - anyone who is a member of the NWFA Facebook group is at least throwing their real name out there as well as their town, school what have you. If you account isn't private, well then.... Same goes on Myspace I guess but you don't use your full, real name... for your PERSEC consideration...

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Babada, babada, babada, all in all, Physics guy and I share pretty much similar views, most privacy is an illusion anymore, with the dissolving of our 4th and 5th amendment protections by the Cheney Administration, and NSA's warrentless wiretapping, sneak n' peak based on nothing but a letter the FBI SA's can create in two minutes, email taps, ...forgetaboutit.

But I do agree it's good to keep the need-to-know awareness when it comes to casual aquaintances. Many burglaries happen because somebody saw or heard something about what's in a certain house. Bragging can be a dangerous vice.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

...
Ya know what I would say though, is that I'm not too sure about that whole 'the government is always watching thing.' The idea that the UPS driver is covertly spying on you and reporting to the government is a little far fetched. UPS is a private company
my .02

I just read this and wanted to respond, it actually happened, if I remember this news story correctly, that DEA tried to get delivery guys to report on what they might see inside houses. The delivery people told them to take a hike. It is not fiction!

 

[Dutchy556]

I just read this and wanted to respond, it actually happened, if I remember this news story correctly, that DEA tried to get delivery guys to report on what they might see inside houses. The delivery people told them to take a hike. It is not fiction!

I've heard something like that too, not sure if it's an urban legend or what...

Am I the only one who thinks its odd that drivers would bring packages (or... pizzas? what other kinds of deliveries?) inside a house? When I get a package I meet the driver at the door and take it inside (or it gets left at the door). Why would they come in? Heavy package or something..?

I don't know how much I believe that the DEA would make those kinds of efforts but hey, they seem to think the way they're fighting the war on drugs is working and clearly they've been standing too close to the contraband bonfire on that one...

 

[BUZO71]

I just read this and wanted to respond, it actually happened, if I remember this news story correctly, that DEA tried to get delivery guys to report on what they might see inside houses. The delivery people told them to take a hike. It is not fiction!

Yes, it does happen. That is true but it isn't the norm and it isn't like the UPS drivers go back to their hidden cave to type the reports to send off to the "high command."

 

[Gray Peterson]

I don't generally post what I drive or anything similar to that. My real name is already well known in many gun rights communities, so what's the point in changing my username?

 

[tac]

post deleted

 

[NWLIEN]

My office neighbors are used to seeing long boxes come and go, i collect golf clubs...........(i'm an 03 c&r collector.....)

the ups guy is 'one of us'...i've almost got him talked into getting a c&r license for himself..........

True story.......one time he was loading the entire bottom of his ups van with ammo from a well known factory........(10k+ of9x19).....he was relieved that the recipient was the local sheriff's dept and not me, as the sheriff's dept has a loading dock and i'm on the second floor of my building with no elevator!!!!!
--carlos

 

[PosterGuy]

Am I the only one that finds it funny that we are using the term OPSEC to describe dealings with the UPS Man? Should I report to the battalion S2 to give him a debrief after the delivery man leaves?

Sorry, had to say it...

Nathan

 

[BUZO71]

Am I the only one that finds it funny that we are using the term OPSEC to describe dealings with the UPS Man? Should I report to the battalion S2 to give him a debrief after the delivery man leaves?

Sorry, had to say it...


Nathan

Well, according to some, the delivery man may be debriefing about you.

 

[pdxjohann]

Recall John Ashcroft's Operation TIPS. Although, rebuffed by public outcry, newspapers reported that most of the program continues through Darpa, Homeland Security, and others. So, maybe it continues.

 

[ZeroRing]

My office neighbors are used to seeing long boxes come and go, i collect golf clubs...........(i'm an 03 c&r collector.....)

the ups guy is 'one of us'...i've almost got him talked into getting a c&r license for himself..........

True story.......one time he was loading the entire bottom of his ups van with ammo from a well known factory........(10k+ of9x19).....he was relieved that the recipient was the local sheriff's dept and not me, as the sheriff's dept has a loading dock and i'm on the second floor of my building with no elevator!!!!!
--carlos

Had it been for you... THAT would be funny!!

 

[OreGunSun]

Thier are two levels of thieves.

1st are petty crooks/Meth heads - crimes of opportunity -smash and grab - these are also the most dangerous and most deadly. They are reactive.

2nd are professionals. - This level rarely get caught but also go after big scores - i f they are going to face jail it will be for something worth their time. They tend to leave the tools behind, plan out multiple escape routes, with a change of clothes appearance, etc. Leave little evidence behind - and blend in.

For the UPS guy if your really worried - next couple packages - that you know are coming and know that your going to be there - meet the UPS guy at the door with a firearm on your belt in plain sight.



I have found that this has solved a lot of the problems - I post these right above the No trespassing sign

 

[Abe Froman]

Thier are two levels of thieves.

1st are petty crooks/Meth heads - crimes of opportunity -smash and grab - these are also the most dangerous and most deadly. They are reactive.

2nd are professionals. - This level rarely get caught but also go after big scores - i f they are going to face jail it will be for something worth their time. They tend to leave the tools behind, plan out multiple escape routes, with a change of clothes appearance, etc. Leave little evidence behind - and blend in.

For the UPS guy if your really worried - next couple packages - that you know are coming and know that your going to be there - meet the UPS guy at the door with a firearm on your belt in plain sight.



I have found that this has solved a lot of the problems - I post these right above the No trespassing sign

neat sign.

 

[OreGunSun]

With OPSEC it is hard to buy or sell - now a days without using the internet or Credit card - leaving a paper trail. Honestly your internet history - through Comcast or on your computer - unless you surf using proxies and a Virtual machine. Even then - Say you visit a website dedicated to SKS/ AK's BMG50's etc or say that you search for certain terms. Most websites log the IP's of Guest and Members. and unless the host is in Russia - then most webhosting companies will turn over records - pretty quick with warrant.

I do think that every day we loose more and more of our privacy. Most people don't think about it but - even if you use Gmail and setup a Bogus account - unless your on dial up and have a Dynamic IP ( like a hotel/motel room) if your on DSL or Comcast then your IP is Static ( like a street address)- it can be for 6 hours or 6 months. But all e-mails have a Header with the From IP and the to IP - so even if you logged in at a Library ( which often means Library card) it is really hard to be anonymous - Do the eMails that you delete really disappear? The Cell tower that you connect to when you initiate a call is logged.

So if your worried about "Big Brother" then it is a little late to be worrying about it now. If it is being targeted for a robbery - (which is more likely - I am less worried about dealing with a Member here or on another Firearms board than to buy or sell from a Firearm fora than dealing with John Q. Public on Craigslist - Criminals are more worried about facing an armed target than an unarmed victim.

Yet, that does not mean that you will not get ripped off or scammed on a Firearm forum.

 

[Redrum]

in my experience...

the UPS man and the postman are not statistically who you need to worry about...in my 7 years in civillain/military security and 10 years in law enforcement I have never had or heard of a case where the UPS man was involved in burglarizing peoples residences..do UPS guys take packages from trucks? yes do they steal stuff from the wharehouse? yes

then who do you need to worry about then? who do you concentrate your OPSEC on?

in order of importance:

#1..the guys gathering cans from the recycling in your neighborhood...these guys are not "homeless"..they are BURGLARS plain and simple..they are oppurtunists..they case the neighborhood every time they walk thru it..looking for "oppurtunites" I cannot emphisize enuff how bad these guys are..they will absolutley rape a neighborhood if they get the chance.

#2..the guys going door to door selling stuff or asking for money (Im not talking about the Boy Scouts or your neighbors kids selling candy for softball) I am talking about the kids going around asking for donations so their inner city ___ball team can go to a tournemant in chicago..that is one of the oldest scams in portland..if you answer they ask you for money..if they knock and you dont..they break in

#3..the friends of your kids friends..not that your kids are bad..or their friends are bad..but when kids talk it gets around and sooner or later it
it gets around to someone who is bad...and they go "hey the Smiths are on vacation and Joe told me Mr Smith is a gun nut"


how do you protect yourself?

get a dog..preferabley 2..they dont have to be big..they just have to make noise. dogs hear and smell things that we cannot

put up alarm signs..you dont need an alarm..you just need to make it look like you have one

lock up your stuff

get some lights

build a fence

basically make your house the hardest house on the street to get into..then the bad guys will go to your neighbors if its a random thing (I know it sounds mean)

get to know your neighbors have a block party every summer..know their cars..know who belongs on your street and who doesnt

dont put your recycle out the night before..put it out the morning they come to get it if you can ..and whatever you do dont give some knucklehead transient cart blanche to go in your yard and pick thru your cans..I know I know..but it happens all the time in the city..

lock your doors even when your home

this is some basic stuff that is not even close to Mel Gibson in conspiracy theory...you can always step up to tin foil on the ceilings and coke bottles on the door noobs if you need to