OPSEC, and lack of it

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You know, you've got a very good point, particularly about posting information on the internet.

One thing I find odd is your example, because I don't think this holds up to your own argument as well as it should, because I see a much stronger point. If you're concerned about the UPS driver, then use a different address for deliveries.

You gave away the fact that you have firearms when you said "I won't be answering any of your questions." If you would have said, "Oh, I'm an avid paintballer," or "I'm a photographer," nobody would ever know.

I think that example is far fetched, and I think you should be less concerned about UPS drivers than, say, somebody who goes cruising by your home and peers in your garage/neighborhood garages. I agree bad things can happen at anytime by the most innocent of people, but I'd say that the UPS guy isn't the BEST example, considering how many 'sketch' people you probably notice on a daily basis. See what I mean? As incognito as people may be, stereotypes don't fit themselves, you know?

Similarly, if you're concerned about the internet, don't use it. We all know that there is so much left behind by everybody, even when they don't know it - although you're obviously more careful than most about that.
There's not much one can do to become untraceable on the internet, wifi at the local coffee shop would be best - and that's just access, then you have other information on the PC accessable to anyone, and then logins...etc. Libraries probably require library card login before using their internet, right? Things like this.

..and then there's cell phones. Disposable? Please.. Sometimes blending in is better than exclusion in cases such as this, get what I mean?
 
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I think you're overanalyzing your UPS guy's interest. He's most likely a shooter himself and was just trying to be friendly.
I have computers and servers for my business, delivered to my home.
It got to the point where the Fed Ex guy showed up at my house one time with a delivery that wasn't even for me! He just assumed they were because of what they were and the manufacturer logo on the boxes.

Am I concerned that the delivery guys are telling their criminal friends that I get these high dollar items delivered all the time? No, not at all.

I'm more concerned about the people who happen to drive past and notice the boxes in the garage when the door is open.
 
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Contrary to what most people believe, criminals don't browse through these kinds of forums to case places. If they want to figure out your plates, or where you live THEY WILL. And through much easier means than looking at pictures or text here.

First point, criminals look for the easiest crime with the biggest payoff, dealing with anyone that owns firearms and are proficient with them is not the easiest way to go. Most of the firearms that are stolen, are through burglaries targeting venerable locations, NOT people that show off their firearms. I mean if a criminal knows that you have certain firearms, where you keep them, and when you are gone, then if they really wanted them, they will steal them. BUT he won't be getting that information from here, they are most likely one of your friends if you let him have all of this information, or by some other lack of judgment. But the amount of details required for such things have not been released by any members in any post on here.

And from what I see, no one is living a life where they need such "OPSEC", the smart thing to do is to lock up your firearms securely where they can't be stolen in a time that you find to be reasonable (no safe is really secure).

Being alert and cautious is a good thing, but believing that everyone is a criminal is purely paranoid.
 
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ZA-

Thank you for the thoughts. I do follow most of what you suggested and more. For example, shredding all bills and keeping 2 seperate mail boxes. One for personal use and one for business/bill/credit card use. However, I do like to post a Fudd gun or two on the boards.

editted
 
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I did not resort to name calling, just that suspecting that everyone is trying to invade privacy is an act of paranoia. It reminds me of the poster in the detectives office in the movie "Brazil"; "Suspect everyone!"
 
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I agree. If you're not going to talk about firearms, post pictures of firearms, in some way ADMIT that you OWN firearms, why are you on a firearms forum?

Just curious. I do understand Joey's license plate, where it's not a big deal right now. But in a few years it could be, if the right people end up banned from the forums and whatnot. But that's the extent!
 
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Good conversation here, and good points made by all. Being "aware" isn't necessarily being "paranoid" it's just a good practice to be careful about whom you share your enthusiasm with and where.

But frankly, I tend to believe it's not necessarily the person you are conversing with who is the potential problem but rather the person who may be within earshot who is taking notes.
 
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And to bring up the main topics, there is NO privacy in this modern age, no matter how hard you try to preserve it, if someone wants to find out certain things about someone, they can, it just takes the right knowledge.

operational security is not needed in relation to firearms, as long as you don't give away secrets such as a safe combination, or where you have things. It takes a pretty hardcore criminal to target a heist for firearms, or a very ignorant one. You are FAR more likely to have your identity or credit stolen then someone breaking in to take your firearms, impersonal crimes are on the rise for a reason, they are easier.

Its not too hard to tell the difference between curiosity and someone casing you or your place.
 
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Good conversation here, and good points made by all. Being "aware" isn't necessarily being "paranoid" it's just a good practice to be careful about whom you share your enthusiasm with and where.
There is a difference between being aware and paranoid, being aware is watching for the UPS guy asking VERY specific questions (you will know when they are asked), and when they get to the point that make you feel uncomfortable, you end the conversation in a non obvious manor. Being paranoid is showing a defensive reaction to someones comments/questions that are not yet asserted as threatening questions. The major difference is how you handle the situation.
 
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There is a difference between being aware and paranoid, being aware is watching for the UPS guy asking VERY specific questions (you will know when they are asked), and when they get to the point that make you feel uncomfortable, you end the conversation in a non obvious manor. Being paranoid is showing a defensive reaction to someones comments/questions that are not yet asserted as threatening questions. The major difference is how you handle the situation.
Exactly. :cool:
 
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Okay to bring the title into subjection, can someone name ANY information posted on this site that could compromise a members security? (and how it could compromise it)


And on the same note, if this forum can be used to discover information such as what firearms are owned, I would like someone to list every firearm that I, or any other member owns by looking through the posts.
 

Joe Link

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Guys, I've deleted most of the last posts because they were off topic and basically just back and forth over a difference of opinion. I chose not to delete or lock this thread because I believe it has merit and there are many good points discussed, but we need to try to avoid the arguing, stay on topic, and be civil with each other.
 
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Well to keep this on topic and to not hijack the thread, I will only say this one thing;

I hope that everyone does practice some measure of caution when interacting with strangers (relating to firearms or not). Know where your comfort zones are, and when you exceed them, get out of the situation quickly or find some other way to get back into your comfort zone.

Thats all I have to say. :)
 
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Guys, I've deleted most of the last posts because they were off topic and basically just back and forth over a difference of opinion. I chose not to delete or lock this thread because I believe it has merit and there are many good points discussed, but we need to try to avoid the arguing, stay on topic, and be civil with each other.
Thanks Mr. Link, I agree.

Per my example, the UPS guy was asking very specific questions about my habits and firearms. This makes me feel uncomfortable, so I ended the conversation (what little there was). You weren't in my shoes, you didn't know how they were asked, and you don't know what other items may have been delivered to me by the same guy who can easily know what I have.

Your comfort level may be different than mine. The point of this thread is to raise the point of awareness in what you say and to who, and why you are being asked a line of questions.
Yet,
The way you responded gave you away.
See this...
You gave away the fact that you have firearms when you said "I won't be answering any of your questions." If you would have said, "Oh, I'm an avid paintballer," or "I'm a photographer," nobody would ever know.
Also, I can agree completely with this, because I didn't feel the particular example was sufficiently showing that the questions were unreasonable. Maybe the explanation was too brief, but that was just how I saw it.
There is a difference between being aware and paranoid, being aware is watching for the UPS guy asking VERY specific questions (you will know when they are asked)
I agree. If you're not going to talk about firearms, post pictures of firearms, in some way ADMIT that you OWN firearms, why are you on a firearms forum?
Exactly, and I completely agree - similar to what I said about using the internet in general. One can't throw themselves into these situations and expect them to change.

Hence why I say,
Sometimes blending in is better than exclusion in cases such as this, get what I mean?
The best unconventional, guerilla tactics have always been from within whatever environment the topic is being applied to, not outside of them.
 
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I had to comment- having lived OPSEC since I was 17, I think I have some experience in the area. I am pretty sure your pets aren't going to give away your personal information. For example, things that may give personal information away are talking about your job, family, etc. Its really adding everything up....

Zombie, for instance, I know you are possibly a software engineer that lives in Hillsboro. You're married. You have a dog ( female chocolate Labrador Retriever (65 lbs), and a male Vizsla/Labrador Retriever mix (90 lbs) and may practice martial arts somewhere in the Hillsboro area. You had medial and lateral meniscus surgery on both knees a while ago.

You recently (Dec 13-14) attended the Johnny Appleseed event in Washington where you must have signed up and used some sort of credit card or check to pay for it. And, I'll bet those intructors might remember you since, you, your wife and a female friend all signed up and went. in fact, you're female friend got her rifleman badge (she's a good shot).

You have received UPS and the delivery man would probably remember you based on an odd and possibly rude conversation the two of you had once after he delivered a gun case to you. If I wanted to find out information about you address, I'll bet I could talk to some UPS deliverers and someone would probably remember you. If I had a list of possible names, I could check the sign in at Clackamas indoor range and cross reference with the list are Johnny Appleseed. I could take that list with maybe three to five names and check them against ZABAsearch and I'll bet I might find one or two in Hillsboro.

Of course, this is all just an exmple, but it shows that everyone lets their "guard down." you have to in order to get to know people and intereact.

Ya know what I would say though, is that I'm not too sure about that whole 'the government is always watching thing.' The idea that the UPS driver is covertly spying on you and reporting to the government is a little far fetched. UPS is a private company. It would be along the same lines to say that the companies you buy gun accessories from, is reporting to the government.

my .02;)

OPSEC, or Operational Security, essentially means not letting those that you don't know and trust know too much about you, who you are, keeping valuables out of sight, etc. I and others I've talked to have noticed an abundance of threads on here that ask for information: what firearms do you have, pics of your pets, what do you carry, where do you shoot ... the list is quite extensive. If I recall correctly, Joey Link has some pics of his vehicle and the license plate is visible -- it should be blurred. Posting images can reveal info about you, depending on the camera used. EXIF info is stored in the image header of JPG images (which most cameras use); it's easy to wipe this info out, but it's 1 more case of a digital trail.

Privacy should be a major concern for everyone, as the 4th Amendment is mocked by the injustice system, and your information can and will be used against you. As people get more desperate and the thin veil of "civilized" society dissipates, you'll also see a person's true character and integrity. People will use information for their gain and your harm.

Example: I ordered a gun case about 2 months ago, UPS delivered it. Ordered another one last week, same UPS driver delivered it. I went outside to get my package (more on that later), and the driver says to me "I have another gun case for you" and proceeds to ask me if I'm a hunter, what firearms I shoot, etc. I told him "I won't be answering any of your questions". This driver not only remembered what I ordered a few months ago, but he felt it was his business to ask me firearm related questions, which I, and most people, consider VERY personal questions. Firearms are very personal, very expensive, and can easily be sold for quick cash or used in crimes.

Never let anyone into your home you don't trust. UPS drivers, cable guys, etc. all could either be reporting what they find to the government, or much more likely is they could be casing your place for things to steal. I wish everyone was harmless, but that isn't reality and never will be. Procuring your safety requires daily vigilance; harm can happen to anyone at any time by any person using any means (usually lies, deceit, and force).

Something for everyone to think about as you create threads, post replies, and deal with people in your daily life.
 

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