Other State Opinions On This Police Shooting.

[Boboclown]

I think the guy wasn't in a good mood and that influenced his actions answering the door the way he did. He looks, after watching the video a couple of times, like he realizes it was a bad move and tries to rectify that. Unfortunately, it didn't go well.

He was influenced because there were break ins at the area before this incident, so knocking on the door at night yelling police would be suspicious.

 

[EHJ]

looks like cops being cops, while using their union and qualified immunity to their full potential. I'm sure their paid vacation will teach them a lesson in the use of force.

As for how to police better? Killing fewer folks would be a great start.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire

You ever been a cop?

Do you even know any?

 

[No_Regerts]

He was influenced because there were break ins at the area before this incident, so knocking on the door at night yelling police would be suspicious.

I'll remember that me yelling "police! come to the door!" while fully marked up is "suspicious".

One of the biggest takeaways from the video is how long the situation progressed before shots were fired.

 

[Boboclown]

I'll remember that me yelling "police! come to the door!" while fully marked up is "suspicious".

One of the biggest takeaways from the video is how long the situation progressed before shots were fired.

The police weren't in view so...

 

[No_Regerts]

The police weren't in view so...

If you knew, based on the information you received, that you were responding to someone who was already being violent, you'd stand in plain view and ask for them to come to you? When they have concealment and a knowledge of the area on their side?

 

[Helocat]

The police weren't in view so...

Not in view and the GF said they had music playing when the cops announced themselves, she did not hear it was the PD at the door. GF said she thinks her BF/vic opened the door thinking it was some asshats running around knocking on doors at 2 am.

 

[Helocat]

If you knew, based on the information you received, that you were responding to someone who was already being violent, you'd stand in plain view and ask for them to come to you? When they have concealment and a knowledge of the area on their side?

No I would not and don't expect any cop to do so endangering themselves. However this is a large part of the equation, the PD was solely relying on the vic to have heard their one announcement it was the PD. The GF said she did not hear it so the vic looks outside the peephole sees nothing, then busts open the door pissed that someone is knocking on his door at 2am. Huge part of the dilemma is getting the people inside to know its the police outside, but also keep the officers safe.

 

[No_Regerts]

No I would not and don't expect any cop to do so endangering themselves. However this is a large part of the equation, the PD was solely relying on the vic to have heard their one announcement it was the PD. The GF said she did not hear it so the vic looks outside the peephole sees nothing, then busts open the door pissed that someone is knocking on his door at 2am. Huge part of the dilemma is getting the people inside to know its the police outside, but also keep the officers safe.

It would be interesting to know if any neighbors heard it. We are usually pretty loud.

Funny story, I once had a classified ad posted on here and a local guy agreed to buy the item. We met at the FFL and started chatting as we waited. He then asks if I was the guy that booted his neighbors door the other day. I was....

Turns out no one liked that neighbor anyway.

 

[Helocat]

It would be interesting to know if any neighbors heard it. We are usually pretty loud.

Funny story, I once had a classified ad posted on here and a local guy agreed to buy the item. We met at the FFL and started chatting as we waited. He then asks if I was the guy that booted his neighbors door the other day. I was....

Turns out no one liked that neighbor anyway.

No doubt the neighbors heard it, they say it on the video in the normal "command and control" voice volume. But inside with music playing easy to not too hear.

Funny story on the guy IDing you. My neighbor's kids last week were watching Youtube channels and saw one on Motorcycle chases/moto cops. The moto guys running gopros on their helmets then posting it. They suddenly realize it was their Dad a Tualiton PD moto cop smiling back at the guy asking if the guy pulled over would actually believe what he was saying if someone said the same thing to him, that the guy pulled over cracks up and say "no your right". small world these days with so many video cams rolling.

 

[awshoot]

Not in view and the GF said they had music playing when the cops announced themselves, she did not hear it was the PD at the door. GF said she thinks her BF/vic opened the door thinking it was some asshats running around knocking on doors at 2 am.

So there it is -- his goal was to jump out and intimidate people with a gun. He got himself killed by being a dick.

 

[Boboclown]

Everything's easier to say when viewed from the outside.

 

[RangerArms]

I would categorize this as "lawful but awful"! A series of unfortunate events in a VERY short time span. Those in the business understand the OODA Loop and Action vs. Reaction. The only thing that can be considered, in the totality of the circumstances known to the shooter AT THE TIME, is what a reasonable police officer would do in the same situation. The reasonable factor comes from long standing case-law from Graham vs. Connor. There's much more too it also but that's it in a nutshell without going into more human physiology studies. This has nothing to do with unions or getting a paid vacation. Officers are placed on administrative leave on every shooting while the case is investigated by outside investigators. Police unions are not like private sector unions with a bunch of power. They are a bargaining body for working contracts, making sure federal labor laws are being followed, and keeping officers safe from retaliation from administrators. I've been a LEO for 25 years and NEVER had to shoot anyone. I've come damn close numerous times and would have been justified in a few of them. That's the norm for most officers. And that's the last thing we ever want to do is kill another human being. It's not like in the movies where officers get in shootings several times a week and just goes on about their daily business. The public does not see the true cost because the media portrays us as thugs and murders, only being "held at bay" by rules and regs...pure BS! Those who do enter the profession looking for trouble do find it, and end up fired and lose certifications or go to prison. If you are truly interested in knowing the truth about this subject, please study the numbers of actual events and what the breakdowns mean. Thank you for reading! Now back to the hobby!

 

[No_Regerts]

I would categorize this as "lawful but awful"! A series of unfortunate events in a VERY short time span. Those in the business understand the OODA Loop and Action vs. Reaction. The only thing that can be considered, in the totality of the circumstances known to the shooter AT THE TIME, is what a reasonable police officer would do in the same situation. The reasonable factor comes from long standing case-law from Graham vs. Connor. There's much more too it also but that's it in a nutshell without going into more human physiology studies. This has nothing to do with unions or getting a paid vacation. Officers are placed on administrative leave on every shooting while the case is investigated by outside investigators. Police unions are not like private sector unions with a bunch of power. They are a bargaining body for working contracts, making sure federal labor laws are being followed, and keeping officers safe from retaliation from administrators. I've been a LEO for 25 years and NEVER had to shoot anyone. I've come damn close numerous times and would have been justified in a few of them. That's the norm for most officers. And that's the last thing we ever want to do is kill another human being. It's not like in the movies where officers get in shootings several times a week and just goes on about their daily business. The public does not see the true cost because the media portrays us as thugs and murders, only being "held at bay" by rules and regs...pure BS! Those who do enter the profession looking for trouble do find it, and end up fired and lose certifications or go to prison. If you are truly interested in knowing the truth about this subject, please study the numbers of actual events and what the breakdowns mean. Thank you for reading! Now back to the hobby!

This. I've had several guys who's ticket was bought and paid for, just didn't need to punch it.

 

[leadcounsel]

looks like cops being cops, while using their union and qualified immunity to their full potential. I'm sure their paid vacation will teach them a lesson in the use of force.

As for how to police better? Killing fewer folks would be a great start.

This seems akin to blaming a rape victim for fighting back or blaming a self defender for shooting in defense, does it not?

How about instead we expect, ya know, people follow reasonable behavior and laws in society.

Whitaker's actions:
1. Noise levels were apparently repeatedly rude and obnoxious in a small apartment complex. I've lived in similar environments. Rude noisy neighbors are insufferable. It's like Chinese water torture, slowly driving the person insane listening to others at obnoxious hours.
2. Any excuse that they could not "hear" the police announcing their ID simply supports the fact they were being too loud inside at 10pm.
3. Whitaker could have asked the police to repeat who they were or what their purpose was. Once he ID'd them, he could have put the firearm away.
4. Whitaker expected someone outside. What was he hoping to accomplish? Intimidating someone with a firearm? Whitaker's response at the door put the chain in motion for his own fast death. Nothing good is going to come from blasting open your front door and charging into the hallway. At minimum, you're going to be committing a crime, probably a felonious assault by putting a normal reasonable person in fear. And at worse, you're going to immediately instigate a lethal encounter. The latter happened and he lost.

 

[bbbass]

John has a pretty good analysis of this incident: