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I think it was a bad shoot, but I don't think the officers were 100% at fault.

The jerk who called it in and lied about it being a domestic violence call is the one really to blame here.
 
Intelligence would indicate if you are answering the door with a drawn gun, then you don't need to answer the door.

A $50 camera looking outside could have saved this guy's life.
 
Intelligence would indicate if you are answering the door with a drawn gun, then you don't need to answer the door.

A $50 camera looking outside could have saved this guy's life.

So if someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night, and you are unaware of who it is you would just blindly open the door without any way to protect yourself? Nope, not me.

And cameras shouldn't be required for any reason.
 
I think it was a bad shoot, but I don't think the officers were 100% at fault.

The jerk who called it in and lied about it being a domestic violence call is the one really to blame here.

Its really in a weird area between righteous and bad. The area called "justifiable". Another word mix you'll see during investigations is "unfounded". Just means there wasn't enough evidence either way.
 
Intelligence would indicate if you are answering the door with a drawn gun, then you don't need to answer the door.

A $50 camera looking outside could have saved this guy's life.

This is why I think the girlfriend is lying about there not being a DV issue. Either dude is wound up tight all the time, or he was already pissed off for some reason when he came to deal with whoever was banging on his door.
 
So if someone knocks on your door in the middle of the night, and you are unaware of who it is you would just blindly open the door without any way to protect yourself? Nope, not me.

(Uses big brain) - Wouldn't open the door at all. Would look on camera to see what is knocking, family already has a key, and realistically, there's a 99.9% chance knock in middle or the night is something bad. I say again, (speaking as a guy who has one on his hip while at home) if I felt I needed to draw to open the door, the door should stay shut.

If I didn't have a camera, I'd just ask "who is it?" through the closed door if I wanted to know and based on there answer I would reassess accordingly.
 
DV calls are no joke. They are one of the most unpredictable and dangerous parts of the job.
Yup. It's where most LEO get killed or wounded. Emotions are running high and once you put the cuffs on one of the complainants, the other one starts in on you for taking their man to the jug. It's a no0-win situation. Send in the social workers.
 
DV calls are dangerous for officers - very dangerous, because even if a woman was getting beat on earlier, her man getting ruffed up or even just cuffed by police can then make her want to attack police. So first fact is they were responding to a DV call (regardless of it was actually taking place or not)

2nd fact is having a gun drawn around police officers who are already on high alert is a quick way to get shot, the time between "hands" and shots were so quick that the deceased probably didn't process what was going on fast enough to even be able to comply. That sucks, but it's reality,

We don't know deceased intentions, but we do know that he answered the door with a gun in his hand behind his back, that's not evidence one way or another, it's just a fact, I can see both sides as "being wrong" or "right" depending on how you look at it.

Guy wasn't doing anything illegal by holding a gun, and it never did get pointed at officers, nor did he verbally express willingness for conflict, got shot for holding a gun in the span of a few seconds after opening the door. On the other hand, police responding to a DV call and a guy answers the door with a gun, there's a lot of history to show how that plays out badly for officers. Can't really call this good or bad, just avoidable in the sense that the guy could have not done what he did, and officers could have waited a bit more because there just didn't seem enough time for a guy to 1) get light blasted in his face, 2) process what is going on, 3) hear guys shouting at him, 4) process what they are saying, 5) determine they are actually police and not criminals, 6) then comply with their demands before being shot. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, when the difference between living and dying can be a few seconds, hard to tell people to wait longer.
 
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(Uses big brain) - Wouldn't open the door at all. Would look on camera to see what is knocking, family already has a key, and realistically, there's a 99.9% chance knock in middle or the night is something bad. I say again, (speaking as a guy who has one on his hip while at home) if I felt I needed to draw to open the door, the door should stay shut.

If I didn't have a camera, I'd just ask "who is it?" through the closed door if I wanted to know and based on there answer I would reassess accordingly.

(Uses small brain) I had a knock on my door about 4 months ago. Around 11:30 at night. I grabbed my EDC and went to the door. I looked through the peephole first and realized it was indeed local LE. I put my gun away THEN answered the door. Apparently I had my soundbar up a little too high and the neighbor called. No harm no foul. First time I've EVER had LE knock on my door.
 
(Uses small brain) I had a knock on my door about 4 months ago. Around 11:30 at night. I grabbed my EDC and went to the door. I looked through the peephole first and realized it was indeed local LE. I put my gun away THEN answered the door. Apparently I had my soundbar up a little too high and the neighbor called. No harm no foul. First time I've EVER had LE knock on my door.

You looked through peep hole, determined it was cops before opening door, holstered, or put it elsewhere, big difference. You did basically exactly what I said was a "big brain move" just switch out camera for peep hole. Cops also were responding to a noise complaint and not DV - what they are anticipating going into makes a difference also.

Sadly, it seems many cops see guns as automatic threats, possibly rightly so, but since most gun owners are generally peaceful and law abiding, it means not everyone who has a gun is a threat to police. When I have interacted with officers after reporting issues in my neighborhood (while concealing) there was no issue whatsoever, they were unaware, I wasn't a suspect, etc. but I'd assume my experience during those interactions would be different if I wasn't concealing.
 
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Intelligence would indicate if you are answering the door with a drawn gun, then you don't need to answer the door.

A $50 camera looking outside could have saved this guy's life.

If I am not mistaken, a number of people here answer their door with a gun. Not sure if they advocate it being drawn, but if I was only wearing a pair of shorts, I would not have the guns tucked into the waistband as the shorts would then be around my ankles, so I would have it in my hand.

That said, yes, I was just thinking that an outside camera would be good and that I should get one. OTOH, this was an apartment and I bet the landlord would not allow a camera mounted on the exterior of the front of an apartment.
 
If I am not mistaken, a number of people here answer their door with a gun. Not sure if they advocate it being drawn, but if I was only wearing a pair of shorts, I would not have the guns tucked into the waistband as the shorts would then be around my ankles, so I would have it in my hand.

That said, yes, I was just thinking that an outside camera would be good and that I should get one. OTOH, this was an apartment and I bet the landlord would not allow a camera mounted on the exterior of the front of an apartment.

If I answer the door with a drawn gun it will be to use it, otherwise I have seriously messed up because I didn't do the basic diligence of determining what I was opening the door to and likely avoided the issue entirely anyway.

I highly recommend. On Amazon you can get Yi cameras that work over wifi, they have static and rotating ones, ones for outside or inside. I have windows such that I can put one facing my front door area, driveway, street, etc. Live video feed can be accessed on my free phone app or computer. You can also put mini memory cards into them and they will store several days worth of recorded video, they motion sense so unless it catches movement it doesn't record, they are very programmable in their settings menu via the app, super easy to make them work as desired, plus, they work with infrared too so if you have any exterior lighting they will see in the dark very well. They offer a subscription service to store video, but you can use them freely without it.

Basically, no matter where I am in my house, I can look at what is going on
without physically having to go look.
 
I don't think we all need to install cameras to preserve our safety. Original story notwithstanding.
 
It was a noise complaint, they were playing video games ( read that on another board )
and supposedly had a stranger come to the door the night before
The 911 caller reported it at a DV. The officers would have been dispatched to the call as a DV (note how the time of the second call with 30 minutes later...they didn't even send, or units were tied up and couldn't send anyone after the first call). It is not normal for someone to come out of their house like that, with a gun in hand. People do come out of their houses when they don't want you to see what is going on inside.

Understand that "not-normal" does not equal unlawful, but when you stack up a bunch of ugly stuff involving guns in a dark doorway, bad stuff is going to happen.
 
If I am not mistaken, a number of people here answer their door with a gun. Not sure if they advocate it being drawn, but if I was only wearing a pair of shorts, I would not have the guns tucked into the waistband as the shorts would then be around my ankles, so I would have it in my hand.

Now there's a sight! Heretic comes do the door, shorts around his ankles, IT in his hand.....

:s0168:
 
Police responding to a call for assistance may not enter a residence unless they have reasonable cause to believe that a life is in danger or a crime is being committed. If you answer your door with a gun in your hand, you have not committed a crime. Entrance to the home must be granted by the complainant or via warrant. Now the weasel words. If a LEO believes that you are making or made a "furtive" movement or did ANYTHING to make him/her believe that you were going to bring harm to them, they may blow you full of holes.
 

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