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This will make some people on this forum super happy. Take it for what it's worth.
 
Apologies, I'm sure this topic has been done before, but using the search function I did not see a specific thread pertinent to my specific position for the group.

As a Second Amendment originalist, I am loathe to support any restrictions on our right to keep and bear arms. Keep and bear are given equal weight in the Bill Of Rights, one coming before the other solely for logical flow of the language. The Constitution doesn't equivocate: Shall not be infringed has no qualifications, no asterisks, and nothing to imply that our right to bear arms should be subject to popular opinion. That said, I personally do not favor open carry of firearms. Full disclosure: I have done it and used to do it fairly regularly. Now I will only carry concealed, and generally try to avoid jurisdictions where I am not legally able to do so.

1. Recent events have shown that -- in contravention of the intentions of the Framers and of the language of the Constitution itself -- that our rights are indeed subject to popular opinion. Setting aside for a moment all the lies about lawful gun owners, all the fallacies proffered by gun-grabbers, all the intentional distortion of the data, we should recognize that our rights really are subject to the whims of even the most ignorant among us. Imagine your typical anti-gunner is a smorgasbord of the ideological sycophant, the pacifist, the soccer mom, the authoritarian, the nanny-statist who are at once utterly frightened by firearms, ignorant to their function and capabilities, and happy to place us -- the least-criminal demographic -- in the same group as street thugs, gang-bangers, and incel school shooters. To use a pun, they are indeed triggered by the mere sight of a firearm. Right or wrong, and whether we like it or not, enough of these people are compelled to take what they consider "action" usually in the form of voting for anti-gun legislators who are well-funded by the statist cabal and who will happily disarm you and me (as long as they get to keep their private armed security). I see no utility in setting these folks in motion, and compelling them to weaponize their fear against us. We ought not be giving them any more ammunition to come after us. Pun also intended.

2. Don't ask, don't show, don't tell: I've never seen the tactical utility of an openly-displayed firearm in day-to-day life. I could see a few exceptions -- like the bumbling McCluskys and their horrid display of weapon handling and trigger discipline -- but only in those very acute circumstances where you are defending your property, but out in public I see no reason to expose yourself as the first one the angry mob will want to take out. The power of concealment is the tactical advantage should you ever find yourself in a situation where god forbid you have to use it. I've always been taught "don't ask, don't show, don't tell." Don't ask another person (unless you know them or are LEO with a legitimate lawful purpose) if they are carrying -- it is none of your business; Don't show your gun -- it scares people and you lose your tactical advantage; Don't tell -- don't announce that you have a concealed weapon, see: "don't show." Thinking tactically, were I depraved enough to shoot up a public place, the first thing I'd do is take out the armed security, if any. In my view, that Glock on your hip might as well be a target painted on your center mass.

To be unequivocally clear: I will never support any restrictions on our mutual right to keep and bear arms. This includes open carry laws. But I would ask my fellow gun owners to think carefully about the reasons they might consider OC, or why they do if they are currently. Also, this is not a judgment on my part: If you think OC is right for you, then do it. You do not have to justify your personal decision to me or anyone else. But just consider the potential unintended consequences up to and including soccer moms wetting themselves and calling their rep to "demand action."

What say you?
Personally I would not open carry cuz it puts you at a disadvantage. Take the recent events in Pdx. One guy was legally open carrying downtown and was attacked by multiple youths who stole his gun. also other poeple who were not involved initially also tried to steal his gun during the melee. One of those latter poeple was the Rhine hole murderer who killed a trump supporter in cold blood In Pdx. If it was concealed it's likely he may not have never been attacked in the first place (but hard to say unless u were there probably and I'm only going by second and third party reports of what the youths said "get his gun!" or similar).

Open carry does have a role in some situations I'm sure of making a criminal think twice about attacking. But for me I would rather have the advantage of concealment. Fe example if someone has the drop on you there is still a chance to distract the assailant or wait for the right opportunity to draw when assailant is distracted or otherwise occupied. If he sees your piece I doubt he is going to get distracted or be occupied by other things. 2 cents...
 
Fair enough. What happens when "the way someone bears arms" results in the wholesale dismantling of your right to even own a firearm, much less bear one?
Excellent point!

However, "folks" whom would vote suchly, or "push" for some regulatory minutiae would anyway. Weather they see open carry, or not.

The actual counter to that argument would simply be more folks open carrying, and as expected, nothing untoward happening.

Again though, not my place to say how someone should or should not bear arms. I expect the same in return.

Mind, "Karen's" are going to "Karen", regardless. Some may in fact not be true "Karen's" and just not understand that everything will in fact be fine, once things are explained...We had a newish member here recently post up about how he would call the police if he saw anyone open carrying. Well, he changed his opinion and understanding of his stance pretty quickly with positive thoughtful discussion.
 
Fair enough. What happens when "the way someone bears arms" results in the wholesale dismantling of your right to even own a firearm, much less bear one?

Do you honestly think they need that excuse? C'mon man.


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Take the recent events in Pdx. One guy was legally open carrying downtown and was attacked by multiple youths who stole his gun. also other poeple who were not involved initially also tried to steal his gun during the melee.
The 'recent events' in PDX should have been a pretty good indicator OC in that area was a BAD idea.

What were they thinking?

It should be OBVIOUS OCing in these environments is a loosing proposition due to the overwhelming, and complete lack of respect the masses have for Law Enforcement in general, let alone the open carrier who is essentially at the mercy of these masses.

OBVIOUSLY the OC'er in these areas is on the loosing end - even if he or she did pull out of self defense he or she would most likely be chastised to the ends of the Earth, and probably be on bad ground legally regardless of the outcome.

In the area where I live OCing MIGHT be beneficial due to not only a general lack of crime, but because the greater % of the population IS conservative (and are gun owners) and being pro LEO, OCing may be a signal to the few who might consider criminal acts to think twice.

There is no ANTIFA parading down the streets of Wickiup Junction. There is no BLM rioting at night so what few might be contemplating any criminal acts KNOW they are on the loosing end to begin with - and a preponderance of OC might not necessarily be a bad thing. SO far it hasn't been and maybe a good example of 'Might is right'.

Bottom line? Smaller areas might see LESS crime due to greater numbers OC'ing (if legal in the area) .
 
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Excellent point!

However, "folks" whom would vote suchly, or "push" for some regulatory minutiae would anyway. Weather they see open carry, or not.
A fair argument. Reasonable people can disagree, and I will. I think it is a broad assumption that they "would anyway."

The actual counter to that argument would simply be more folks open carrying, and as expected, nothing untoward happening.
As I said upthread, I'd prefer to see less OC and more CC. FWIS, this is more productive, especially when talking long guns and tacticool ARs.
Again though, not my place to say how someone should or should not bear arms. I expect the same in return.
Agree. I do not like open carry. Not my decision to make for someone else, however.
Mind, "Karen's" are going to "Karen", regardless. Some may in fact not be true "Karen's" and just not understand that everything will in fact be fine, once things are explained...We had a newish member here recently post up about how he would call the police if he saw anyone open carrying. Well, he changed his opinion and understanding of his stance pretty quickly with positive thoughtful discussion.
Why would a person call the cops on someone not breaking the law??? Ah, "Chad." Chad is Karen's boy toy. He IS Karen w/o the secondary sex characteristics. But alas he makes my point: Non-gunners (distinct from anti-gunners in that they don't necessarily oppose firearms, they just don't own them) can too easily become anti-gunners in my view when John Smith walks into Safeway with a roscoe on his hip. If this is too traumatic for the non-gunner, they will call their congressional reptile and become an anti-gunner, especially when said reptile puts Karen and Chad on the mailing list and they are bombarded with all the fallacies and outright lies used by the state nannies to eviscerate our Constitution.

YMMV.
 
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The same could be said regarding the 1st Amendment. Shut it down, Joe, before it's too late.
They've bern tearing that one down since 1789. Kinda making my point... now we have a belief circulating in our culture that "speech is violence." Those same people are very likely to be passionately interested in revoking many more of our constitutional rights.
 
Please understand......
That in SOME places the Govt tells you how you can and can't carry legally. You got no choice.

Why is that?

Because the lawmakers in those places believe that the Constitution says......

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless I say it's reasonable and makes common sense to me.

Aloha, Mark

PS......for me.....IF, given a choice. It will be concealed.
 
What makes you think they know the law? Any idea how many of those types went into panic mode when they tried to buy a gun on the internet and found out they really couldn't have it sent to their house?
A member of a firearm forum doesn't know it's legal to open carry??? Possible? Sure. Probable? Doubtful.
 
Please understand......
That in SOME places the Govt tells you how you can and can't carry legally. You got no choice.

Why is that?

Because the lawmakers in those places believe that the Constitution says......

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, unless I say it's reasonable and makes common sense to me.

Aloha, Mark

PS......for me.....IF, given a choice. It will be concealed.
Sadly you hit the nail on the head. Lawmakers (on both sides of the duopoly) like to imagine the Constitution saying what they want it to say... or not say. Example: Beto O'Rourke's 2A:

The right of the citizen to keep and bear arms shall be determined by me and hell yes I'm coming for your AR-14 or whatever the hell it's called.

Of course it would be in Spanish...
 
Why would a person call the cops on someone not breaking the law???

A member of a firearm forum doesn't know it's legal to open carry???
I believe T O R was answering in general and NOT necessarily referring to a forum member.

In the case of a non forum member It is not impossible to believe a person may understand guns ARE legal to own in a basic sense yet have NO knowledge beyond that. I have, in my 'life' of gun ownership, had people argue with me on a lot of 'basic' gun laws which MANY of us have known forever but these people had no knowledge of.

And Just because someone IS a member of a gun forum does not mean they know all, or any specific gun laws. They could be new gun owners with no former experience as a few new members here have mentioned. Heck I'll admit I do not necessarily know all the laws (or details of) as they apply to certain guns or accessories I do not own or have experience with.

Then there was the case of the person who posted although he KNEW OC was legal he would call the police regardless. Simply seeing the gun altered his perceptions into referencing one is ''crazy' to open carry, feeling 'uncomfortable', and it is not 'sensible' (his words). In all fairness this person claimed to have recanted his position however it stands as an example of how just SEEING a gun can affect one emotionally and rationally - and this person KNEW it was legal.

Imagine what it might do to a die hard anti who has no knowledge of gun laws, and probably fears and hates them ?
 
A member of a firearm forum doesn't know it's legal to open carry??? Possible? Sure. Probable? Doubtful.
I know it's legal, although I literally never do it in a non-outdoorsy setting. Even with that, when I see it, it grabs my attention. So does a hottie in a short skirt. We are just wired to notice certain things.

The ignorance of the general populace wrt laws and gun law in particular is glaringly evident in any aspect of life where it comes up unfortunately. From the people who are (were?) shocked to learn OR CHL holders could carry on public school grounds to the popular entertainment trope where a gun is discovered and the owner blurts "it's OK, it's licensed", people really have no clue overall.
 

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