Oregon Open carry loaded in portland?

[bbbass]

Annnnnnnnnnnd, where did our OP go???

 

[cigars]

I posted a very fair question. why I got back was a fairly hostile response. people here aren't seemingly interested in discussion as they are interested finding as many reasons as they can why someone is wrong and shoving that in their face. even when those reasons are projections. I came here looking for conversation. what the hell else am I supposed to do.

Please keep in mind that this is not a legal forum nor are we (most of us) lawyers. We are gun enthusiasts, among other things. While many members here are quite knowledgeable in many areas, it would probably behoove you to consult with an attorney before you walk out your front door armed or otherwise.
Now, how can I help you with cigars?

 

[cpt_neckbeard]

I went back to sleep. that's where I went. now I'm going to work.

 

[bbbass]

I went back to sleep. that's where I went. now I'm going to work.

Ah. Well, thanx for checking in! I hope you found this discussion useful.

 

[Ura-Ki]

@cpt_neckbeard Here is the issue, this forum is all about discussing firearms laws and pro 2nd related content, However, we CANNOT offer legal advice based on opinions, but facts and verifiable links!
All that said, a good healthy dialog will go far and this thread content bears further discussion, as long as it is done respectfully and with out aggressive attitudes, it's all good!

Wanna change a city/county ordnance, find out how to go about that process! Bring that discussion here and share, you might find you have many Ally's who would be willing to help!

 

[solv3nt]

@cpt_neckbeard you might find you have many alleys who would be willing to help!

I personally try to avoid the alleys....

/Thread

 

[Ura-Ki]

Damn Fat thumbs!

 

[awshoot]

... That said, the issue with the Hawaii ruling, is that Hawaii is may issue state, and they do not issue, but they also do not allow open carry. ...

Exactly true. In HI, there was NO way to carry. I'm not familiar with Portland but it sounds like it is legal to conceal carry there. If that is so, the HI case won't help much for anyone who got tagged because the foundational legal climates are different. The HI case would only apply if the facts were the same or you could argue a logical extension, but the reasoning in that case is that people have no way to carry at all and if the state doesn't allow concealed, it must then allow open. It is not a necessary conclusion from that ruling to say that states must allow both concealed and open.

Many people here, myself included, would rather we had a SCOTUS precedent that said states must allow people to conceal or open carry at their whim. We don't have that. So when you asked your first question, I wanted to make clear that there is a way to challenge the law that carries no legal risk of jail time and no legal risk of losing your rights. If you do that and win, we will all celebrate you, like Heller (he didn't break the law, he signed an affidavit saying he wanted to keep a gun at home).

There is also the "wrong" way, or perhaps I should say the million dollar gamble, and that is to get arrested for breaking the law and then go all the way to SCOTUS where you will either win and we will celebrate you, or you'll lose, do your time in prison, never own a gun again. That's all you are hearing here. It's good advice, not hostility.

 

[awshoot]

But I'm definitely a "boomer" at age 67. So I took the comment as an unwarranted personal insult. I know it's popular today to blame Boomers for everybody's problems, but I don't have to tolerate that kind of bias/bigotry here. At least I don't think so...

I really really really want to say "OK Boomer" but I'm worried it won't come across as the good natured ribbing I intend. But you know, you could always rebut OK Boomer with something about Avacado Toast or mom's basement or any of the other millennial insults.

Sincerely, Gen X, just sitting back, sipping a beer and stirring the pot. ;-)

 

[awshoot]

i was 21 at the time, it was handgun ammo. ask anyone here that knows me, at 31 i look like im 17 LOL

You'll appreciate that when you're in your 50s and look 30ish.

 

[cpt_neckbeard]

so I clicked the link in the city ordinance page and email them asking whether or not they're going to drop the ordinance as of this is decided. it's my understanding that the first step is to make contact yourself and ask for the change. so I did and this is the reply I got earlier today.

Thanks for inquiring how developing Federal case law may impact City of Portland ordinances. I'm forwarding your e-mail to The Mayor's Office.

Lisa



Lisa Leddy
Information & Referral Specialist| City/County Information & Referral Program

Office of Community & Civic Life
City Hall, 1221 SW Fourth Ave., Rm. 325

Portland, Oregon 97204
503-825-2627 (office)
503-823-3050 (fax)
[email protected]

Office of Community & Civic Life

The Office of Community & Civic Life (Civic Life) connects Portlanders with city government to build inclusive, safe, and livable communities. To request translation, interpretation, modifications, accommodations, or other auxiliary aids or services, contact 503-823-4000, Relay: 711.

www.portlandoregon.gov

now I don't actually expect anything to change. these people are going to do what they want not what is right. but it is a necessary first step. seeing how open carry is constitutionally protected as a means of personal defense and I do not currently have a CHL yet I do have my second amendment rights they are infringing upon those rights and if I were to get my CHL then I would no longer have standing as my rights would not be infringed until or unless it were to expire. so currently my rights are being infringed as a Portland resident. it's so ridiculous if I were to carry while walking my dog I would literally have to keep the magazine and the bullets separate. I've seen coyotes tearing through my neighborhood. I literally have to load the bullets into the magazine and then the magazine into the gun. sooo ridiculous. so the real question here is what do I value more, activism or being able to carry without legal consequence. do I get my CHL and make this go away for me personally or do I make a legal challenge and try to make this go away for every law-abiding citizen.

 

[Ura-Ki]

so I clicked the link in the city ordinance page and email them asking whether or not they're going to drop the ordinance as of this is decided. it's my understanding that the first step is to make contact yourself and ask for the change. so I did and this is the reply I got earlier today.

Thanks for inquiring how developing Federal case law may impact City of Portland ordinances. I'm forwarding your e-mail to The Mayor's Office.

Lisa



Lisa Leddy
Information & Referral Specialist| City/County Information & Referral Program

Office of Community & Civic Life
City Hall, 1221 SW Fourth Ave., Rm. 325

Portland, Oregon 97204
503-825-2627 (office)
503-823-3050 (fax)
[email protected]

Office of Community & Civic Life

The Office of Community & Civic Life (Civic Life) connects Portlanders with city government to build inclusive, safe, and livable communities. To request translation, interpretation, modifications, accommodations, or other auxiliary aids or services, contact 503-823-4000, Relay: 711.

www.portlandoregon.gov

now I don't actually expect anything to change. these people are going to do what they want not what is right. but it is a necessary first step. seeing how open carry is constitutionally protected as a means of personal defense and I do not currently have a CHL yet I do have my second amendment rights they are infringing upon those rights and if I were to get my CHL then I would no longer have standing as my rights would not be infringed until or unless it were to expire. so currently my rights are being infringed as a Portland resident. it's so ridiculous if I were to carry while walking my dog I would literally have to keep the magazine and the bullets separate. I've seen coyotes tearing through my neighborhood. I literally have to load the bullets into the magazine and then the magazine into the gun. sooo ridiculous. so the real question here is what do I value more, activism or being able to carry without legal consequence. do I get my CHL and make this go away for me personally or do I make a legal challenge and try to make this go away for every law-abiding citizen.

And lets not forget, being "Required" to ask permission to exercise a Constitutional right via a Carry Permit! That in it's self is an undue burden upon a person who is in constitutional good standing!

 

[TC64]

It seems like Portland has a higher number of Antifa members than anywhere else, thus there's no way I would open carry there. That being said, because there are so many of them there I would conceal carry with a couple of extra mags too.

 

[awshoot]

.... do I get my CHL and make this go away for me personally or do I make a legal challenge and try to make this go away for every law-abiding citizen.

Your concealed license will come long before the legal process even gets rolling.

Don't go breaking the law without confirming with a lawyer that your interpretation of the HI case on the Portland ordinance is rock solid and nothing bad will happen if you break the law (*).

If there are coyotes where you walk your dog, walk your dog elsewhere, sort of a corollary to the rules of stupid: Don't go to stupid places at stupid times with your dog.

As for how long a legal case would take, check out the CA mag ban case: Duncan v. Becerra | Michel & Associates, P.C. The next thing to happen is a hearing before a three judge panel at the 9th circuit on April 2nd. This case was filed on May 17, 2017. It's taken at least two years, generated many thousands of pages of legal briefs, and it's just getting started. Also consider Cody Wilson, I remember him saying in one interview that he started selling the Ghost Gunner so he could come up with the several hundred thousand dollars his lawsuit with the Feds would cost. If you have that much dough lying around, you have the ability to buy the best legal advice available before doing something that could result in a criminal record.

Anyway, what you want to do is fight the law itself, not the police and prosecutors. You can fight the law without ever even meeting police or prosecutors if you do it the way Heller did. In fact, you can get a concealed license and still fight the law by finding a friend who doesn't have one and will sign the affidavit and then paying all the legal costs. That way you get your cake and eat it too.

(*) Any lawyer who tells you are certain to prevail, is one you must run away from immediately, either because he or she is incompetent, or wants to bleed you of all your assets by representing you in the criminal case that is sure to come.

 

[Flymph]

Get a concealed carry permit, you'll save yourself a lot of money and hassle.

 

[Pops1911]

Young pups!

 

[bbbass]

I really really really want to say "OK Boomer" but I'm worried it won't come across as the good natured ribbing I intend. But you know, you could always rebut OK Boomer with something about Avacado Toast or mom's basement or any of the other millennial insults.

Sincerely, Gen X, just sitting back, sipping a beer and stirring the pot. ;-)

An excellent display of tact!! I applaud you!!! And am jealous because I myself lack such tactfulness and the ability to use forethought.

(Edit: I'm a blunt Flat Head screwdriver rather than a fine scalpel.)

 

[arakboss]

My understanding of the Young vs Hawaii case is that is was not settled yet. The 9th Circuit is/was waiting on the New York case to be heard in the Surpreme Court before going further in Young vs Hawaii case:

On February14, 2019, this Court stayed en banc proceedings pending the issuance of an opinion by the United States Supreme Court in New York State Rifle& Pistol Association, Inc, v. City of New York and further order of this court. This stay applies to amicus briefing. The State of Hawaii's motion for leave to file supplemental briefing is stayed until further order of the Court. The Court will address a briefing schedule after the issuance of the Supreme Court's opinion.

Has anyone heard whether that situation has changed?

 

[CharlesNichols]

My understanding of the Young vs Hawaii case is that is was not settled yet. The 9th Circuit is/was waiting on the New York case to be heard in the Surpreme Court before going further in Young vs Hawaii case:

On February14, 2019, this Court stayed en banc proceedings pending the issuance of an opinion by the United States Supreme Court in New York State Rifle& Pistol Association, Inc, v. City of New York and further order of this court. This stay applies to amicus briefing. The State of Hawaii's motion for leave to file supplemental briefing is stayed until further order of the Court. The Court will address a briefing schedule after the issuance of the Supreme Court's opinion.

Has anyone heard whether that situation has changed?

When a majority of non-recused active judges on the 9th circuit court of appeals voted to take Young v. Hawaii en banc, that automatically vacated the three-judge panel decision. "Vacated" means the three-judge panel decision does not exist and can not be cited within the 9th circuit.

Young v. Hawaii is stayed pending the decision in NYSRPA v. NYC. That will not change unless something unusual happens such as the lone plaintiff (Mr. Young) dies or he is issued a permit to carry a handgun, at that point his case would become moot. "En Banc" panels in this circuit are uniquely limited en banc panels of eleven judges. Although the 9th circuit has come close a few times to granting a "Full Court" petition (all active judges, currently 29), it hasn't. That might change as we now have 10 newly minted Trump circuit court judges eager to assert themselves and it only takes a majority of non-recused judges to vote to hear a case either "en banc" (limited) or before a Full Court panel.

When the mandate issues in Young v. Hawaii, my appeal (Charles Nichols v. Gavin Newsom et al) will automatically be taken under submission for a decision. The three-judge panel decision in my appeal will then be binding upon me and the State of California, notwithstanding further review by an en banc or Full Court panel.

 

[awshoot]

... my appeal (Charles Nichols v. Gavin Newsom et al) ...

Thank you for the solid info and especially thank you for taking the fight to the bastards!

EDIT: background on Charles Nichol's open carry case: Ninth Circuit to Tackle Second Amendment in March - NewsBlaze News