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Oops, I did it again

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by rufus, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    Each and every time I use a gun with a red dot sight, I put it away without turning the darn thing off. Weeks go by and I go to use the gun again and guess what? Those batteries ain't cheap! At least I'm learning to keep new ones in the range bag.

    I must be get'n old. How do you guys remember stuff?
     
  2. robbalot

    robbalot Vancouver, Washington, United States Member

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    I'm with you pal. Eotechs, red dots and illuminated reticles, about once a year I forget to shut off one or more. Must be some kind of early onset something or other...
     
  3. SonicBlue03

    SonicBlue03 Snohomish Well-Known Member

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    Aimpoint Comp M4S. They claim that battery life is 8 years, so I'm counting on that to be right to compensate for the same thing. That or it'll last long enough that my stupid brain will think it's been 8 years because I won't be able to remember back that far.


    What were we talking about again?
     
  4. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    Bacon?
     
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  5. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    That is why I use iron sights or have really good BUIS and am confident in using them as competently as electronic sights. Also I've migrated away from anything needing an on/off switch or batteries on serious defensive hardware that I stake my family's life on.

    Your not alone, I'm amazed how many people show up for a DefensiVe Carbine class and even after changing batteries the night before they still experience some sort of power related issue during a simulated mission critical scenario.

    Therefore you either need to switch to a non-power dependent sight system, or accept the fact that your carbine Red Dot may not have any power the next time you need it to train or to defend yourself. And if you choose to keep this system my advise to you is to get really-really good at transitioning and using your BUIS. And invest at least 40% of your range time working with the BUIS.

    I'm honestly perplexed how unfamiliar and incompetent many folks are in being able to seemlessly and immediately transition AND be able to hit and continue on in a simulated fight/defense with BUIS. It seems once their electronics go out, they "turn-off or power down" also. We seem to be way over dependent on electronic gadgets. My personal training regiment is to use/train at a 2:1 ratio with the BUIS to Optics/Red Dot and also make sure at least 20% of my training practice involves seemlessly transitioning from the optic/red dot to BUIS and then back again.

    Bottom line: go to something else not power dependent, learn to live with it and accept it, and build a solid back up plan. Dang it I left my GPS powered up all night now how am I going to find my way out of here!!!
     
  6. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    lol I know what you mean. Good points.

    I should state that my red dot is mounted on a .22 that I use to shoot golf balls. While I'm shooting golf balls a 1911 is holstered on my hip and a .38 is in my pocket. Nothing electronic on defensive tools and the .22 still has iron sights so I can continue to kill golf balls when the battery dries up. :thumbup:
     
  7. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yea I forgot one other tidbit you might want to seriously consider to correct this situation assuming stick with the same Red Dot. This is exactly how we train the LEO Snipers. As soon as they are finished engaging in a drill they must return their power magnification down to the low power setting, close the dust covers to protect the glass, and reset their DOPE to their 100 yard/meter mechanical zero. They do this each and every time they're done engaging in a drill or individual practice session. They don't do this at the very end of the day but at the concluse of each drill!

    The same principle applies here for you as well...as soon as you're done with your immedate drill/shooting/playing whatever...power down your electronic optic and sling up your rifle/carbine or bench it or whatever you normally do at the end of a drill or shooting session. Then the next time you must engage a simulated threat or target shoot you must power it up immedately. This is EXACTLY how you'll engage a threat in your home in the middle of the night or if you pull the carbine out of the back of your truck you'll need to power it up first before engaging any threats. You've trained yourself now to never power down. Instead, do the opposite, train yourself to power down once you're completely finished with a specific drill, target shooting or simulated defensive scenario.

    But too many of us, once we uncase the carbine we power up and then never turn it off until we're finally done at the end of the day -or in your case not power down at all and drain the batteries. BUT, however, we do not leave these Red Dots powered up at home for defense. We want them powered down to conserve batteries. So start training under or using the same conditions you'll find in a fight situation at home. Power down after each session (This implies responding LEO's have arrived on the scene and the area is secure/stable. I'm not implying you power down during a simulated fight or while still operating in a actual or potential hostile environment - that is not what I mean).

    This does two things for you...first adds some realism to your training - you're now training exactly the way you will have to deploy at home in the middle of the night or when you pull the carbine out of the back of the truck if away from home. Secondly it builds a muscle memory programming so you never forget to power down when done. It increases the probability you will save your batteries for when you need them (and save you some serious bucks in the process.)

    Same principle we teach the snipers...they must start their rifle/optics exactly in the condition they are when they uncase them and are deployed on a mission - mag down to low power, covers closed, and turrents at mechanical zero. If in principle you'll start shooting/training in the same manner and build this habit or muscle memory it is substantially reducing the probablity you'll have a power failure due to forgetting to power down a few days before. Just a thought...
     
  8. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense. I could use some training, would be fun. OFA only 200 miles from home...
     
  9. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    OFADAN had his coffee already I see. Those two post took you less than 1 minute to type huh? lol

    Apparently the nuke you lar sights are the same cost as the red dots after you figure in the cost for batteries?
     
  10. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I was working on the second cup ironically as I typed :). There is some truth about them thar nuclear sights you just mentioned!!!! Lower Price doesn't alway equate to lowest cost!

    Only 200 miles? Geez, consider yourself in our back yard...we drawing students from as far north as Canada, eh...and far south as Costa Rica and far east as New Jersey. Several fly down from Alaska several times a year. During a Defensive Shotgun course one student was complaining about having to get up at 3 AM to drive down from WA to attend class...there was this pause and then three big "Good 'ol Boys' who flew in from Georgia the night before said in a deep southern drawl..."Boy, you've got nuth'n to whin about unless you traveled as far as we have!".

    We'd be honored to have you on campus whenever you can make the journey. I'm confident you'll learn a great deal and I'm certain you'll have a great time!
     
  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Why would you link a RV park that doesn't allow guns? What good would that do a guest?
    Otherwise looks like a nice spot.
    But this thread is about......what was it about?
     
  12. Ocanada

    Ocanada Way North Member

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    Only 405 miles from my place. Easy one day drive.

    Hey Dan, I booked shotgun in May. See you then.

    Actually Dan, I know a bit of a drift, but have you have a chance to try the Aimpoint PRO? Also, heard there was a new sight from Leupold that is similar to the Trijicon. Any range tests?

    Thanks.
    Peter EH!
     
  13. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    some people are just naturally more intelligent than others!!!
     
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  14. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    I just accept I will forget, and carry a few extra batteries in my range bag. While they aren't cheap, it is better than being frustrated going to the range.
    M
     
  15. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Years ago they posted no guns. I don't see that posted on the web site any more. I do know we have students stay there. Ill ask the Resident Deputy and update the link on our web site. Thanks for the heads up. Okay to keep this thread on track - yea go with a sight that doesn't require batteries.
     
  16. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Shotgun in May! Cool I'd better put in my request for Canadian goods soon then so you can go shopping! Look forward having you come back down.

    To stay on topic...no haven't tried the Aimpoint Pro yet, need to talk to Will to see if we can get one for T&E. Yes, Leupold sent me the new Leupold DeltaPoint Reflex sights for T/E (Testing & Evaluation) and we have it on a super lightweight AR and it is working fine so far. For the AR we chose the 3.5 MOA dot for potentially longer distances. It has a motion sensor and shuts off automatically after any inactivity. The minute it is picked up it powers back up automatically. The battery is said to last one year. It is also auto adjusting for brightness and so far works good in a multitude of environments including fog and smoke. We've test drove it in total darkness but are still waiting on any mid-day sun :)

    We have it mounted on a hi-rise mount so the BUIS are perfectly aligned with the Red Dot and if the unit fails there is no manipulation of the BUIS you just look through the rear aperture and see right thru the DeltaPoint and directly onto the front sight. It works amazingly well. And it is super lightweight and rugged. You can test drive it when you come down.
     
  17. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    This has got me thinking. I'm going to put a 3X5 card in my case that says "BATTERY" in big letters. We'll see if that saves me about $50 a year.

    I have a nice set of Peltors that likes to turn itself on in my range bag. I've mounted a clip on the outside of the bag for them and that's saved me a few sets of AAA's already. Or maybe it's AA's. What were we talking about?
     
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  18. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I know what you're talkin' about.....
    This morning , I found my keys while lookin' for my wallet, so all wasn't lost....:wow:
     
  19. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    That just might work. Why didn't I think of that? :thumbup:

    Actually, my card needs to say "TURN OFF RED DOT YOU BIG DUMMY". I require explicit instructions.
     
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  20. Ocanada

    Ocanada Way North Member

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    Thanks Dan.

    The Deltapoint sounds interesting. I'll give it a try in May. I have an EoTech and find it a bit big when trying to keep the weight down. And the Aimpoints look good and the battery life claims sure make you take notice. I know local E.R.T. teams are using different models and leave the sights on all the time, and have the armourer change the batteries out once a year during complete strip downs. So far so good and these guns are shot a lot and carried daily as we now have full time teams.

    Peter EH!