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only 2 weapons platforms?

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by Robb, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. Robb

    Robb Gig Harbor, WA New Member

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    I read an interesting article in SWAT magazine that got me doing some thinking and I was curious as to the thoughts of others.

    The author of the article (Mar '13) has only 2 platforms for rifle (AR/M4) and pistol (1911). Within these, he has everything from .22lr for practice, 9mm, .40S&W .45ACP .223 .308 etc. With these he has home defense, daily carry, plinking, and hunting set ups. Of course we could dispute his caliber choices, or GLock vs 1911, but that's irrelevant. I'm just looking at the generalized concept here.

    PROS:
    There is only 1 manual of arms to learn, you're able to teach your spouse and kids on one platform that they become familiar with and can move up from there, many interchangeable parts, fewer gun specific tools, more familairity between different family member's weapons or weapons in various locations, etc.

    CONS:
    Although the author didn't list any out, the few that I see right off are the lack of availibility of this breadth in your favorite brand. You don't get the latest, coolest toy on the market. And lastly, cost. Depending on how committed to this concept you are it may be rather expensive to undo everything you've already done.

    This had never been my thought, but I've been kicking it around for the last couple of weeks since I read this article. I'm curious as to your thoughts.

    Thanks.
     
  2. rocky3

    rocky3 oregon coast Active Member

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    If your saying one platform for pistol and one platform for rifle, I could go along with that. Too bad the two platforms won't use the same bullet, such as: the 357/38. I would prefer a 9mm, and a 308 short for myself.
    As for guns outside the 2 platforms I would want a 22lr in pistol and rifle. My needs are small and being proficient with both platforms is my main priority. Think of the money saved on ammo?
     
  3. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I may only have two platforms that I consider tools, but I have too many toys to ever consolidate that far...
     
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  4. Robb

    Robb Gig Harbor, WA New Member

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    1 platform rifle. 1 platform pistol is exactly what I meant.

    The author ran a .22lr 1911 and a .22lr AR for practice. Then went back to those same platforms for daily carry and home defense. All the manipulations that he practiced on the range for $40 stayed the same for all weapons.

    WHile I doubt that I'll get rid of a few of my guns, I think I'm going to start moving this way. Or at least really think about it before buying anything else in the future.
     
  5. knuckle Head

    knuckle Head southeast Well-Known Member

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    I can see the logic here and would not argue against it if that is what a person chooses.

    But it leaves a few calibers a shotgun I love the pump shotgun, revolvers which a lot of people keep around for shooting snakes with bird shot and for ease of operation to the occasional shooter.

    Then there is the faithful 30-30 that ae more abundant in lever action than any other platform.

    Personally and since I have been around guns a since I was weened, I have my preference of platform for different calibers and different uses.
     
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I don't buy weapons platforms I'm not an army. I buy the firearms I think I will enjoy shooting using them for the various things I can think of to do with a firearm. Be it target practice, Varmit hunting, small game hunting big game hunting, Bird hunting, Clay pidegons, Various forms of competition from 50' indoor .22 to trail walks with a .50 cal muzzle loader, Self defense or just fondling and playing with cause something like a 1872 Open Top Colt in .44spl with a 7.5" Charcoal Blue and Case hardened finish is just to cool.
     
  7. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    To Each to his own
    The AR and 1911 offers the interchangeability Kool Factor but the idea that a man can only Master a Colt and AR, not being as proficient with a Pump, Glock, Bolt/Lever Action at the same time is simply the Projection of a particular type of insecure individual who fantasizes his peers as being of the Short Bus variety
     
  8. gearhead

    gearhead NC Active Member

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    Personally, I see a weapon as a tool - each one has different uses. I've always preferred being the jack of all trades and master of none, but as mentioned above, to each his own. In my experience, the basics of marksmanship have carried over to every platform. As to manual of arms, I think it is a good thing to be familiar with as many different models as possible. My wife and I carry different pistols and calibers, but shoot with both at the range to stay proficient. Same for rifles. At the end of the day, I have my favorites for home or self defense, but I also like having options.
     
  9. nwwoodsman

    nwwoodsman Vernonia Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    That's great that he teaches his family how to use firearms. I see teaching only certain platforms as being a hindrance also. In my home my wife shoots with me only a few times a year. My oldest boy has the desire to become proficient in the use of many firearms. He know's how to operate semi-autos, revolvers, single actions, bolt actions and lever actions. I trust my 10 year old to carry a firearm beside me more than I trust most adults. One of the reasons I teach him to use different actions is in case something happens to me then he will know how to show the rest of the family. Not all familys are like that. Say the old man dies. Semi-autos are banned. They have to switch to an entirely different platform. Will the family know how to use a lever action or revolver without having a negligent discharge or know how to clear a misfeed in a bolt action or know if there is a round chambered now that they've just closed to action on a pump? Best to carry with what you're most comfortable but good to be knowledgeable of all firearms in general.
     
  10. HansC

    HansC Portland Member

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    I took a coworker out shooting a couple of years ago, an ex Marine Iraq war vet. I brought a dozen guns, we shot about half of them that day. I remember handing him an HK91 and watching him awkwardly failing to figure out how to rack it. It only took a couple of minutes to line him out on where the controls were located, and we had fun shooting, but it kind of threw me.

    I think it is important to understand how to safely operate any weapon you see. Even if you think you have no use for an SKS or a break action revolver, the internet may not always be handy. Muscle memory is pretty flexible. Valets might drive thirty or forty different cars a day, and it only improves driving ability. If, God forbid, you are involved in a violent encounter and end up picking up a weapon that isn't yours, it would be a terrible time to try to figure out how to disengage a safety.

    I like old guns, many of which have a heel magazine release. If a person has never seen or used one, a stressful situation might make finding it impossible.

    There is a great deal of enjoyment to be had in shooting different guns. How a particular gun fits an individual has a great deal to do with practical accuracy. Shooting dozens and dozens of different guns will help a person figure out what fits best.

    Plenty of people that claim an AK is so simple to figure it out that a monkey can field strip it. This may be true, but most human beings will need to be shown how or given instructions to do it the first time, and several repetitions in order to commit it to memory. I bet more than a few of us have experienced frustration while reassembling a Ruger 22 pistol. Muddling through it builds mechanical manipulation skills that are good to have.

    I couldn't have just a couple of platforms and still be happy.
     
  11. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Assembly and operation skills are important
    I grew-up cleaning and assemblying Lugers, Lahtis, Weblys, Ruger 22s, Hispano-Suisas, Rem Nylon 66s and the like. HKs are odd ducks but no big whoops. I also spent a year as a 45B20 so my skilz are hot
     
  12. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Well, lets see...

    I could stick with my revolvers (which make up most of my handgun collection), but I can't get rid of my 1911. And beyond that, do I keep my Rugers or my S&W's?
    Do I keep my Garand or my AR? And if I keep those, does that mean I have to get rid of my heavy barrel bolt action target rifles? What about my lever actions and my 10/22's?
    Can I have three systems if I add a shotgun? But then is it the semi-auto Ithaca or my 870?

    Okay, so the thing is that I've been a gun of the month whore for a lot of years. I have bought, sold, and traded all kinds of guns to enhance my collection. I don't have a lot of money, so I am required to rotate the collection in order to have the experience of all the guns I like. Some guns don't get traded or sold, but most are expendable because they are replaceable.
    My advice to people just starting into shooting is frankly, ignore articles like this. Buy the guns that you like. Unless the only reason you want to own guns is to prepare for unrest, then don't try to pigeon-hole yourself to two platforms for the sake of learning. People are often smarter than they give themselves credit for. You can learn to safely and effectively manipulate more than two types of guns. Have fun with it.
     
    nwwoodsman and (deleted member) like this.
  13. FreakyStylie

    FreakyStylie Willamette Valley Member

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    I like the idea for the simplistic aspect. Less cumbersome. Great for teaching somebody unfamiliar with firearms. Go from a 22/45 just to learn form and shed fear of recoil/etc. Then move on to a 1911 without having to learn anything more but the power.

    Most people like a little more variety though. Like me. :)
     
  14. RBid

    RBid Wilsonville, OR Well-Known Member

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    "What will you have with you?"

    There are discussions in threads of all types, on multiple boards, about everything from "the 5 firearms everybody should have" to "AK vs AR" to "best SHTF rifle". For gun guys, this stuff is FUN to talk about. The theory and philosophy behind the various answers are fun to discuss.

    Reality is a bit different. People rarely carry very much with them. When things go sideways, people will have whatever is immediately accessible to them. If the ever popular 'bug out' scenario comes up, Couch Commando Chris (fictional sample person) is unlikely to take his 10/22, Glock 19, AR-15, Remington 700, and Saiga 12, plus 1,000+ rounds for each. He's not going to be "using the Remington 700 for long range work and hunting", and "using the shotgun for CQB".

    1 long gun + 1 pistol is a more realistic representation of what someone will actually carry. Understanding multiple platforms, mechanically and in terms of relative efficacy, is a very good thing. Planning on using multiple platforms for various specialized applications is impractical in a discussion about societal breakdown. In any scenario short of societal breakdown, we're not lugging long guns around, anyway.

    All of this is to say, I think it makes sense to do your preparation and planning around 1+1, though it is a good idea to also understand other systems.
     
  15. tac556

    tac556 WA New Member

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    I think that author may have a better than average set of skills in his preffered platforms, however he's foolish in thinking he doesnt need a thorough understanding in all popular weapons. Sounds like someone who feels that he will never be in a situation other than an LE or SWAT mission. Stupid in my opinion. Strictly from a training point of view, being trained in the potential weapons of your enemies is just smart, and the best way to do that is to own one yourself.

    To put it into a "SWAT" perceptive - since this magazine is supposedly aimed at swat and SF types, say an off duty swat member is at a shopping mall when two terrorists burst in with AK's blazing. Off duty guy kills one terrorist with his Glock- does he now go after terrorist number 2 with his half empty Glock, or does he pick up the dead guy's AK? Only one good answer on that, and that won't happen if the swat guy has only ever trained on the AR platform. And I guarantee any swat guy worth anything will be going after terrorist number 2 instead of waiting for help.

    This is why most swat types don't read SWAT magazine very often....
     
  16. ch139

    ch139 teh gehtoe Active Member

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    From a preparedness standpoint (this IS a preparedness sub-forum) it kinda makes sense to dumb things down as much as possible; remember Murphy is always close by.

    One might imagine though that in "preparing" for whatever might lay ahead, one might want to become proficient (or at least familiar) with any number of popular firearms.

    The question that kept popping into my head after reading through this thread and rereading the magazine article, what kind of firearms enthusiast wants to limit the scope of their collection like this? This of course begs the question, are we talking about a firearms enthusiast or a prepper (or something altogether different)? The two are not synonymous. For a person not "into" firearms and seeing them only as tools or the like, may well choose to limit the types of firearms and related equipment they procure. Imagine it is a completely different story for a person who is a firearms enthusiast.

    Even for a person who is a firearms enthusiast and may have quite the eclectic collection, having set types of firearms to go to if the S ever does HTF is probably a good idea. While the author of the article has done an admirable job of outlining the issue at hand and has made steps toward a goal in mind, he maybe neglecting a few areas in the name of simplification and standardization; it seems like a shotgun type, a more powerful long-range rifle type and less expensive 22lr options may be in order.

    Seems rather simple for someone who isn't an enthusiast and some may well be envious of the simplicity. For those who are firearms enthusiasts this simplicity may be just a pipe-dream; buckling down and streamlining may prove to be very difficult when there are so many other neat things out there that require attention.
     
  17. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think that I'm close to a breakthrough! Two platforms and a single caliber! An AR/M-4 and a snub nosed T- Contender, both in .223! Eureka!!!
     
  18. gaijinsamurai

    gaijinsamurai Beaverton Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    I pretty much lean the same way. My ARs and Glocks are my "tools", but I'm also a collector and recreational shooter, and love my FALs, AKs, 1911A1s, Enfields, Swede Mausers, etc....and won't be parting with them anytime soon.
     
  19. 206thsense

    206thsense Seattle, WA, USA Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    To each his/her own, but if you're serious about gun safety, it's helpful to be familiar with several different major "types" of guns. The minimum being how to check if it's safe versus cocked & loaded...

    Shotguns: Break-action, pump, semi-auto
    Rifles: Bolt-action, semi-auto, AK-type, AR-type
    Pistols: Revolvers, 1911-type, DA/SA (Beretta, SIG, etc.), Striker (Glock, XD, M&P), etc.)

    Growing up, my father never really had a huge collection of guns. But because he had some interest in hunting, some interest in target shooting, and A LOT of interest in home defense, I was taught the basics of safety for what we did have: 2 shotguns (one break-action, one pump), 3 rifles (two bolt-action, one semi-auto), and 3 pistols (2 revolvers, one DA/SA SIG). I'm glad what he taught managed to stick, because I can take the basic principles of safety and apply it even when I'm trying to figure out / learn a new gun. My father basically modeled what I wanted to do with my own kids... ;)