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Online CC course a joke.

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by eliduc, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. eliduc

    eliduc Active Member

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    I took an online concealed carry course a couple of weeks ago in order to qualify. What a farce. It's not entirely the fault of the people giving the course who freely admitted they just do the minimum required by the State. In my opinion, if Oregon is going to require the course it should include a mandatory section on Oregon firearm statutes which are specific on the circumstances in which you can use deadly force. Nor was there anything in the course outlining the exceptions to concealed carry. Anyone applying for a CHL should be informed of the statutes. When I applied for the license there was standing room only in the sheriff's office. Half the people there probably don't even know how to look up the statutes or the meaning of ORS. Is any information provided when you receive the license? When I received my C&R from the feds a booklet with all the regulations was included.
     
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  2. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, Kitzhaber, Burdick and the rest of them are working on it as we speak.
    I'm sure the list of requirements for instruction to obtain a CC in OR will become quite long and burdensome very soon. (insert evil laugh here)
    Be careful what you wish for.

    I agree with you on the circumstances for the use of deadly force being better taught though. :s0155:
     
  3. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    You get what you pay for.

    Caveat emptor.
     
  4. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    I thought the class I took was pretty lame. I was into soaking up anything and everything I could regarding proper handling and safety, laws etc. In the class I took there was somewhere around 20 people. Some of those folks had a mindset that they got to shoot someone that was bothering them after they got the CC! One lady stands out still, she couldn't comprehend the legal mess she might be into had she shot someone whether it be in her home or on the street.

    There's a lot of idiots out there, and frankly I'm amazed there aren't a lot more of them in the news doing stoopid stuff....Like the guy here a few years ago that tried to shoot the tire of a car with his CC weapon, that still makes me cringe when I think about it.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
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  5. Mikej

    Mikej Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    To add....I think an online course for a CCP is not nearly enough, and shouldn't be allowed. But I do think that I am probably safer when I'm out and about with the people that do use that course than I am with the general public, which half the time isn't paying attention while driving 2-ton vehicles that are well more capable of crushing and killing than a little bullet!
     
  6. eliduc

    eliduc Active Member

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    Do you get what you pay for? How in depth are the class room courses? There is the opportunity to interact with the instructor so that is good. I don't really know. I'm just asking.

    I was a California Division of Corrections Correction Officer for five years, a deputy sheriff and a private investigator in Los Angeles for Pinkertons detective agency. I held a California Concealed Carry permit way way back in the day when there were probably about three issued in the entire state. There was no course. You just had to know someone who was tight with the Sheriff. In addition, I was a member of the Jr. NRA and went to the range every weekend and competed starting when I was eleven years old. I really wasn't interested in dropping $40 if I didn't need to. I didn't expect a college degree. In a perfect world a concealed carry course should provide education that gives a measure of safety and protection to the public and the holder of the license without violating the 2nd Amendment. I hear you loud and clear when you say be careful of what you wish for. No one is more aware than I of the threat to the second amendment and gun ownership from misguided do-gooders and corrupt politicians. I'm not wishing for any government requirement that makes it more difficult to acquire a ccl but if some uneducated person with a ccl unlawfully kills someone it provides an excuse to the gun grabbers to make it impossible to acquire a license. A ccl course shouldn't be used as a weapon but the completion certificate should not be a meaningless piece of paper either.
     
  7. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The class I took back in 1994 was taught by a retired LEO. He reviewed safety, choice of carry guns, and did, in fact, go over Oregon statutes regarding where you can/can't carry and when you can/can't legally use a gun to defend yourself or others. He also gave examples of cases where he was a responding officer after a defensive use of a gun and gave recommendations on what to do and what not to do. Overall, I thought it was a very good, and informative class. It wasn't a rush to get through it just so we could be done.

    If you want something better than what you got, I would recommend the folks at OFA (Oregon Firearms Academy). They have a Basic Handgun Safety course that exceeds the requirements for the CHL and involves live fire as part of the instruction. I've taken a Defensive Handgun course from these folks and can highly recommend them. Very professional and very thorough. I'll be taking another DH course from them in 2015. At $125 for the class, I think it would be well worth it for those that need a class like this for their CHL.

    http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com/courses/basic.htm

    I will echo what was said above - be careful what you wish for. The last thing we need is to invite even more government involvement in restricting and structuring our rights. That never ends well for us.
     
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  8. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    Your cc class was your kindegarden class you have classes for the rest of your life. Because there are new laws all the time. But unlike public education it is up to you to make the move to further your education.
     
  9. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    WE don't teach law in school. Yet the 1-million plus laws in the USA impact all of us every day.

    If you choose to carry a weapon, it is a good idea to read and understand the laws that impact that action. Not just the written, codified law, but also the regulations and interpretations by the various courts.

    And while our firearms laws may seem overwhelming, take a look at knife law. I may or may not be carrying an "ordinary pocket knife," but I am definitely carrying a tool I use for work, and not a weapon.

    A suggestion, I think I got from OFF, was to spend the money for an hour of a criminal defense lawyers time - have them explain the realities of where you live and work (play).


    As for your thought that the law should cover more, one, that is your responsibility not the States, to get that education (don't be cheap -- frugal is good though.) And, two, your right to self defense is granted by your creator, not some piece of paper; The paper restricts your rights, don't give the lawmakers any reason to do that further.
     
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  10. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    I took the class at MultCo Sheriff's, my wife later took an online one. They're both a joke, just another hoop to jump through.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
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  11. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    2 things:

    1. All I learned in the class I took (for OR and Utah - which covers you in all but 6 states if I remember right) was basically if you pull your gun then you better need to use it - I already knew that.

    2. At least OR requires SOME class time... In WA it costs $65, your fingerprints and 6 weeks to get your CC (honestly though I like it that way - punish the stupid and leave the rest of us alone).
     
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  12. Gunguy45

    Gunguy45 Well-Known Member

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    There is not a single government-mandated course for CCW permits that is remotely adequate in terms of training in firearms handling and shooting, not to mention use of force laws.

    You can manage (barely) to give people the VERY basics of the skills necessary in 10 hours, including about 4 hours of live-fire. And that's really the basics and nothing more. Enough to teach them how not to have a ND and roughly hit what they aim at with a centerfire pistol and know when they can and can't use deadly force.

    To really get people to a point of competence it takes a couple of days. Figure 16-24 hours at a minimum.

    Most states use either an abbreviated NRA basic Pistol course or home firearms safety curriculum. Neither was designed as a self-defense pistol course, neither of them remotely prepares one to carry a concealed pistol responsibly or safely.

    Which really gives proof to the lie that these mandated courses have anything to do with preparation or safety. If they actually were about that, the courses would be vastly more involved. As always with these things, the idea is to make it more expensive and more difficult to exercise a constitutional right. That's really the point of mandated classes.

    Ya know what not a single state does? Give vouchers for training with the sale of new guns. Not a one. Remember that the next time some politician lies to you about wanting "gun safety" or "adequate training" before allowing people to carry.
     
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  13. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    In Washington you dont have to take a class but they hand you a brochure containing all the laws.

    ...no class, more effective than Oregon.
     
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  14. eliduc

    eliduc Active Member

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    Rather then pay $300 an hour to a defense lawyer for advice I would put it toward a new gun.
     
  15. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Most CHL Classes are very good. A few incompetent instructors may pop up on occasion.
    Online classes should just be stopped unless they include one on one or in person group time as well.

    (but not near as many bad instructors as are in our schools and universities.. now that is real incompetence)

    All in all I think this thread was designed to give anti's ammo to make life hell for gun owners and little else.

    Stop falling for it, and let it die as it should have from the first post on.

    :s0097: 's
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
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  16. ocarolan

    ocarolan Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Agree, better to give CHL applicants a copy of Kevin's book "Understanding Gun Laws in Oregon" and a Thunder Ranch DVD (Defensive Handgun) as a digital download. This could be included in the application fee.

    Many CHL holders probably know their limits regarding accuracy... the gap is use of force and safe handling. No wonder given what we're taught by movies - warning shots, shoot in the leg, high ready, shoot out the tires... :)
     
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  17. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    And don't forget "Joe Biden's" Advice..... Use a shotgun and shoot through the door....
    Yep now that was real bright..............People actually did that after he said that. Now that is
    as dumb as it ever gets .... &^%$#^$^
     
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  18. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid that many of the comments here point to a desire for government to dictate to us, what they feel consists of responsibility. For the life of me, I just don't understand why some people think that it's up to someone else to tell them to learn the laws and learn how to safely and responsibly use a firearm. Those of you who feel that way are a part of the problem. But don't worry, Ginny, Floyd, and the rest of their ilk will soon have you getting your way. Might as well start practicing for the Texas live fire exam, ponying up he money for 40 hr courses, and opening your doors for mandatory firearms storage inspections.

    But if you don't want to go that route, how about assuming some responsibility for your own knowledge and training level, and quit whining that the government didn't make you assume responsibility for your own actions.
     
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  19. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Let the thread just die.......
     
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  20. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Constitutional carry doesnt need a class....
     
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