On the fence between two AR's....

[keith66044]

So I want an AR and I'm having trouble deciding between the ruger sr-556 and the next generation arms patrol model. There is a used patrol model at the local store with less than 100 rounds down the barrel, or I could order the sr-556 for about the same price.
I've checked out both of them, but never shot them.
Any thoughts out there on my dilemma?

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[PDXGS]

I've got a Next Gen JC382 Patrol- you wont find a better AR for the money.
I shoot mine in most of the monthly PR matches and in all kinds of weather without issue. It has about 2.5K rounds through it. There are two other JC382 Patrols in the family with similar histories of reliability.
The Ruger is not a bad gun by any means but I know what Nathan and his crew at Next Gen do when they produce a rifle. Send me a PM if you need/want any more information.
J

 

[eldbillbo]

from what i have read about both i'd say

next generation arms

 

[MountainBear]

I've been happy with my next gen AR. I always thought the Ruger was a bit heavy...

 

[keith66044]

I thought the ruger was a bit heavier too, nice to know it wasn't just me...

 

[MountainBear]

There's a bit of extra weight in all of the new piston system guns. More parts, more steel, more weight...

 

[keith66044]

Do you think the new piston system is more reliable than NGA's ceramic coating system? Does anyone know if there is a big difference between the patriot model and the patrol model? I think the one I'm looking at might be the NGA patriot.

 

[PDXGS]

Do you think the new piston system is more reliable than NGA's ceramic coating system?

NO

Does anyone know if there is a big difference between the patriot model and the patrol model? I think the one I'm looking at might be the NGA patriot

I think the Patrol came with and Enedine Hydraulic buffer and has the ceramic treatment to the bore as well.
Give Next Gen a call and ask them...they just moved to Idaho afew weeks ago. (208) 714-4220

 

[eldbillbo]

There's a bit of extra weight in all of the new piston system guns. More parts, more steel, more weight...

and more problems

more parts to loose

more parts to break

more parts to ware out ( a quote from another board once you buy a piston all other parts become disposable/expendable starting with buffer tube then upper receiver )

more parts to malfunction

i really liked the piston idea at first no more pooping where it feeds but the ar15 was not designed from the drawing board as piston rifle

i own a piston ar now (not the ruger i wont buy from them until they bring back the MR T factory Folder) i will say i really do like it but it gets really dirty in the gas block and the piston gets really dirty as well and takes just as much time if not more to clean sure i may not have to clean it as often if i dont want to but its the same deal with a DI system just a DI system requires more lube on the moving parts which can collect dust and gunk up where as the generation arms claims the ceramic coating does not require lube thus riding that problem with no added parts and if you loose or break a part you can find replacements just by many manufactures unlike the piston systems which are all unique to their makers requiring to special order directly from the maker or their few retailers

for example on my system if i loose the pin that holds the piston in which i have almost have done twice while cleaning then i have to pay $30 plus shipping for a new one and only 1 place sells it . also the maker does not make parts for it anymore

the piston system are a lot of expence most systems cost a average of $200-300 then you need a anti tilt buffer $95

they seem to have the carrier tilt problem sloved with special buffers or special carriers

most problems with DI systems have very little to do with the DI system usually its another issue like the mags or extractor and a piston wont fix those and most problems with a DI system itself relates to mags loose carrier keys worn bolt rings misaligned gas tube or gas block mostly pretty easy and inexpensive fixes if you do them your self or too much or too little lube which next generation arms has seemed to solve

I don't own a next generation arms to get a first hand review but if it does what it claims and gets rid of the need for lube then it has done what the piston systems have done but with out all the extra parts that can go bad or get lost.

dont think cause you own a piston system you can leave it dirty , inside the piston chamber can rust leading to a froze up piston especially in out climate it does get really dirty in the piston chamber even though the gases blow out

 

[The B]

why dont we start from the top... 'cause you're lookin at spending a lot of money on either gun.

why are you looking at these particularly?
what features are you looking for?
whats the gun for?
what kind of shooting do you do?
how many rounds have you fired in the last 6 months?

answer these, and we can probably come to a sound conclusion, based on a little more than what's been discussed so far.

 

[crosse]

i like th sound of these next gen ar15s...until i saw the price of their sole model the spc for $2800!!!! $1500-$2000 sure...$2800 tho?!

do they still sell the new patrol model somewhere?

 

[MEP1000]

I have a Ruger SR556 and really like it. It is a bit heavy compared to other AR's on the market. The piston does get extremely dirty and you have to really scrub the **** out of it to get it clean... Thats the only thing that really sucks.

 

[The B]

i like th sound of these next gen ar15s...until i saw the price of their sole model the spc for $2800!!!! $1500-$2000 sure...$2800 tho?!

do they still sell the new patrol model somewhere?

2800 bucks for not a lot of return. the only thing i saw that was sort of nice about the rifle is the JP trigger.... but for a duty/defense carbine, that's not actually something you want.

for this kind of money, you could pick up a centurion or noveske, have a literally battle-proven rifle, and still have about a thousand left to spend on optics, lights, ammo, etc.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Does anyone know if there is a big difference between the patriot model and the patrol model? I think the one I'm looking at might be the NGA patriot.

The patrol model has flip up sights, better furniture on it, and comes with the hydraulic buffer. The patriot model was our bare bones entry level rifle that had the coating and compensator. Even the basic patriot model performed better than a standard off the shelf uncoated rifle.

We still have some patrol models available at Philomath gun shop and on the coast at the Waldport ace hardware. We are not currently producing patrols but we do have the new MP168 SPC rifle in production for around the same price as the old patrol rifle. They are retailing for $2699. For the amount of rifle in that package you can't beat the price. We just had a guy in Texas last weekend hit a 10" plate at 1000 yards using Federal XM193 ammo.

We use Jard precision for our triggers btw. It is a custom short reset Jard trigger that they make exclusively for us and breaks around 3.5-4 lbs.

 

[crosse]

The patrol model has flip up sights, better furniture on it, and comes with the hydraulic buffer. The patriot model was our bare bones entry level rifle that had the coating and compensator. Even the basic patriot model performed better than a standard off the shelf uncoated rifle.

We still have some patrol models available at Philomath gun shop and on the coast at the Waldport ace hardware. We are not currently producing patrols but we do have the new MP168 SPC rifle in production for around the same price as the old patrol rifle. They are retailing for $2699. For the amount of rifle in that package you can't beat the price. We just had a guy in Texas last weekend hit a 10" plate at 1000 yards using Federal XM193 ammo.

We use Jard precision for our triggers btw. It is a custom short reset Jard trigger that they make exclusively for us and breaks around 3.5-4 lbs.

its always nice to see local company's giving the 411 lowdown on their products vs. us keyboard monkeys scavenging the interweb for little details based on "someone's" call to the company or "what they heard". Thanks Taurus 617 CCW.

with concerns over reliability (non lubricating function), did the Patrol models come with the same ceramic coating treatment as the newer SPC? Oh did they have those spiffy noveske barrels as well?

As for the OP question: As you can see...the idea of a normal weight super accurate DI that runs runs and runs w/o maintenance is much more appealing than a heavy piston AR that still requires cleaning out the gas system. I haven't got to shoot the ruger 556 but if its anything like all the other piston systems i've tried...i'll pass big time whenever offered a good DI system.

 

[The B]

are you familiar with Noveske, OP? they're also local.

www.noveskerifleworks.com

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

are you familiar with Noveske, OP? they're also local.

We are quite familiar with Noveske and have a great working relationship with them. We use Noveske barrels in our MP168 SPC rifle. The patrol model did not come with the Noveske barrel which is why the new MP168 is more accurate. We have a custom profile barrel that we buy from Noveske that is between a bull barrel and an M-4 profile. Best part is that all the amazing shots our customers have accomplished is with a 14.5" barrel.

As far as the OP question I tend to stick to John Browning's principals as simple is better. The piston guns were truly meant to ride on receiver rails (ie. M1A, FN FAL, Galil, AK-47, etc). There is a reason why the bolt was designed to be railed and with a floating bolt concept, bad things can happen. Even though Ruger addressed the carrier tilt problem, it still occurs. You just don't see metal being gouged out when it happens anymore. My personal AR-15 is a patrol model with an upgraded Noveske barrel. It is extremely light and more accurate than I can be.

 

[Merle]

Seems a bit expensive to me. I've built a helluva lot of AR's and they have all been reliable and accurate. I can build one using the best of ther best parts and probably still come in a good bit under the price of their basic AR. I think some of the things that AR builders are coming up with these days are just gimmicks that people don't really need.

 

[PDXGS]

Seems a bit expensive to me. I've built a helluva lot of AR's and they have all been reliable and accurate. I can build one using the best of ther best parts and probably still come in a good bit under the price of their basic AR. I think some of the things that AR builders are coming up with these days are just gimmicks that people don't really need.

I thought the same way for a long time...shoot one....I'll be your opinion changes.

 

[Merle]

I thought the same way for a long time...shoot one....I'll be your opinion changes.

Care to elaborate?