on a budget training?

[natef]

Lol. Sorry I'm used to people taking my opinions as abrasive. Square range to me is standard bench and shooting at a target at 12:00 only. The problem with that is as you know the threat in any situation comes from any side and any time. I have seen just a little combat. And learned that standing at a bench and shooting with no external stimulus doesn't help when rounds start zinging.

 

[wichaka]

I haven't been to a range in years. One doesn't get very far past the marksmanship basics stage standing at a table/bench. Which is why I won't teach at a range...most ranges don't like folks checking their 6.

It just depends on what folks are looking for. Basic fundamentals? Sure, I won't knock anyone wanting to go there and not progress further.

But a lot of folks I come across fall into one of a few categories;
Certificate Collectors, those who pay their money, get the cert. and go back to their beer and T.V...they just wasted all that money.

"Ninja Status" Those who think that classes will get them "there", whatever "there" is. They don't seem to know that a firearms class is not like getting the brakes fixed on your car, and you're done. With firearms training, there's no such thing as "done" or "there". Its like having to take a maint. drug the rest of your life.

Or the type I prefer to train with...those who are humble, knowing that they will never know everything, but are wise enough to be able to throw the BS flag because their detectors are not broken, and be able to apply technique to combat scenario to see if its really all that.

Sounds like we should do the coffee thing.

 

[natef]

I'd absolutly be up for getting coffee and planning somthing out.

I like the breakdown made me laugh.

 

[Phillip Boisselle]

The best way to look at it is your weapons handling work is another martial art like jiujitsu or mui thi. It's a skill that has to be honed. You retain a lot over time, but you loose crucial technique when not practicing.

 

[wichaka]

So true Phillip.

 

[Lange22250]

My training is mostly in small units and explosives. I'm not a fan of square range. All I was saying is I'm not a fan of square range shooting. Nothing wrong with it If that's what your into and I don't mean to start a fight but I just don't seem to see where it works into real world. If you have a home invasion you don't stand in the door square to the intruder. You get down on the floor, silhouette them and shoot around the corner of your room door opening. Wichaka, very never met you and have no doubt your training is awesome. But standing in front of square targets and shooting vs team exercises including patrolling with threat calls and egress bounding or fight through bounding makes more sense to me for training and getting together. Peel drill with forward threat and learning proper cover and shooting from cover is one of the things I train with. Not trying to start a fight. I'm too new to this forum and enjoy it. What are your thoughts on my type of training?

What you are saying would make sense if the people attending had actually mastered basic gun handling, which from what I saw in the video, at least half the people haven't ie. the finger on the trigger during the reloads at :39, 1:49 and the soup sandwich of a grip 2:45, failure to push pull during an ar reload, all on top of constantly crowding the cover.
You are task overloading the people and the lack of the basics shown would make me concerned about their ability to safely conduct that type of training.
It is not possible to skip the basics on the way to the "sexy"stuff.
If you are going to post up videos of "training" on youtube and hold yourself forth as a training company what you are doing should be done right and safely.

 

[natef]

I haven't posted any video. In fact I have nothing to do with any videos online here on this page. Please fact check before accusing people.

 

[Lange22250]

I haven't posted any video. In fact I have nothing to do with any videos online here on this page. Please fact check before accusing people.

 

[JB25]

That video was some other guys trying to promote their business.

 

[Lange22250]

That video was some other guys trying to promote their business.

That's my bad. I can see the tan plate carrier and beard in your avatar and assumed that you were the same person in the video posted above one of your posts and assumed.
I apologize for associating you with those guys.

 

[natef]

No worries Lange, the thing about what I have been talking about and what they are showing are 2 worlds appart in training levels. I would never recomend bounding drills to a guy who hasnt had some serous time on both the square range and the 360 deg field. as you said the "sexy stuff" is aluring to want to jump right into but you have to have the basics. Like any trained skill you have to walk before you can run, that being said I do think that you can give a small taste of more advanced drills for people when you are doing the basics. what does that mean? well if you are working with a few people on clearing jams and malfunction knowledge at the end of the day open it up to a live fire with a basic advance on tartet drill and have training rounds mixed into the magazines.

 

[SmawGunner]

At the 1:20 mark. In a class setting I wouldn't give this much trust to a guy I just met a few hours ago. I would not want him to be shooting from behind me. Only with guys I've trained with alot or there are well defined shooting lanes / sectors of fire and the drill is under complete control by the instructor who is ready to yell cease fire immediately.

And the muzzle blast issue. The guy in front is in the muzzle blast which is an area you never want to be in. Atleast have the rifle muzzle slightly forward of the other guys head so hes not within the muzzle blast.

 

[Joe13]

I think some of these guys would benefit from some time on a paintball field.

I realize it's not exactly the same; but it will give you a MUCH better idea of what you can and can not get away with in the "real world".

If you can't train with live fire heading your way, paintball is the next best thing to give it some realism.

Assuming the basics are covered with your firearm handling, you can gain a lot of insight into a live fire fight.

I had the pleasure to play against the Vancouver swat team (I think that was the group) about 18 years ago with my staff at our paintball arena one night during a private party. That was a hell of a night.


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I would be interested in joining a group that wants to go out and practice though. If it's in the Vancouver/PDX area.

Practice at whatever is fine with me; rifles, sidearms, standing/moving etc - I just like to shoot stuff.

(Safely!!!)

I also wouldn't mind trading out RSO responsibilities