Old casing found in west Michigan dunes, Any info?

[JRapRobert]

Hi all, my wife found this casing and another while metal detecting in west Michigan. Reads "32 CF" and "S U M C H". Google says 32-20 Winchester. I've never heard of it, wondering if it's still in use? Or if anyone has an idea of when it was discontinued. Pretty cool, curious Thanks for any info!
Jon

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[Robear]

32-20 has a history

 

[crossbow5]

That is cool! 32 CF (Center Fire) UMC (Union Metalic Cartridge) SH (Solid Head) UMC ended up buying Remington over a hundred years ago.

 

[CountryGent]

Neat-o historic find.

A few outfits still make ammo for the .32—20 WCF, such as Remington, Winchester, and Black Hills. IIRC, some single-action revolvers are still produced in said, though I don't know about long guns.

 

[JRapRobert]

That's awesome, thank you guys for all the info. She's really excited—new to the hobby and has found lots of garbage, so very cool to find some good garbage

 

[AK0perator47]

Winchester 1882 lever action rifle would be awesome to have

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I once owed a original 1873 Winchester , made in 1889 in .32-20....made for a dandy small game rifle.
Neat cartridge for sure and very under-rated by some.
Andy

 

[fstdraw]

I never heard of a Winchester 1882. 1892 yes.

 

[AK0perator47]

I never heard of a Winchester 1882. 1892 yes.

The 1882 is when Winchester started making a repeating rifle in 32-20 aka 32WCF... the model of rifle that they used for the caliber was the 1873... like @Andy54Hawken said and it had a 24" barrel... way underrated round. After they started producing them Colt made a revolver in the caliber but that's another thing lol

 

[fstdraw]

Good to know. I've owned several 1892's in .32-20, great round to roll your own.

Thanks for the info!

 

[edzz]

.45 Colt and 44-40 may have won the west (not), however the 32-20 likely put more deer and rabbit in the settlers pots. Great cartridge for both rifle and revolver.

 

[Legion489]

Well, I'm not familiar with an 1882 Winchester either, perchance someone could post a picture. The 1873 Winchester was chambered for the .25 WCF, .32 WCF .38 WCF, .44 WCF (Winchester Center Fire, aka .32 CF or 32-20 CF as the other companies didn't want to put "Winchester" on their guns), with the .25-20 being added in 1882, and later, in the 1892 Winchester (which I had). The 1876 and 1886 were large rifles that used full-sized rifle cartridges.

All the "WCF" cartridges (which later became the 25-20, .32-20, 38-40, .44-40) were originally RIFLE cartridges and later added to handguns. The .45 Colt and later .45 Schofield were HANDGUN cartridges and only much later was the rim increased so it had enough rim to work through the lever guns. They were originally balloon head cases, so they couldn't cut an extractor ring in them either. ALL .45 Colt lever actions are modern repo guns and NOT original Winchesters or original old west guns.

In the Utah National Forest, an original 1873 Winchester in .25-20, MADE in 1882 was found leaning up against a tree. Since the 1873s were not a cheap gun (neither was the Colt 1873 SAA) that would have been a huge financial hardship for whoever lost it.

The cartridges got their name from the caliber and amount of black power they used. The .25-20 was a .25 caliber and used 20 grains of black powder, the .32-20 of 1882 was .32 caliber (.312" bullet) and 20 gr BP, the .38-40 WCF (.401" bullet, same as the .40 S&W. In fact the .38-40 Win was the ORIGINAL .40 S&W, same bullet diameter, same bullet weight, same bullet velocity) with 40 gr. BP. So why wasn't it called the .40-40? No one knows now, but the best guess is some big wig didn't like the sound of ".40-40" and thought ".38-40" sounded better. And no, they did not have any .38 caliber guns that used .40 caliber barrels. The .44-40 used .44 cal (.429"-.430") bullets, same as modern .44s and 40 gr BP.

The Winchester rifles were most popular in .44-40, .38-40, .32-20 and .25-20 in that order. The Colt SAA revolvers were chambered for some 29 (or more) cartridges, with the .45 Colt (there was no "Long" Colt) being the most popular, with.44-40 second, .38-40 third, with the others following along.

In case you were wondering, the .30-30 was NOT the first smokeless powder COMMERCIAL US cartridge. The .30-40 Krag was the first SMOKELESS power cartridge loaded in the US, and the first US MILITARY smokeless powder cartridge, in 1892,. The .30-30 came out in 1895 in the 1894 rifle. The FIRST smokeless powder commercial cartridge was the .34-56 Winchester for the 1886 rifle, but it didn't work out too well, so Winchester dropped the cartridge with only one rifle (that is known of) being made in the .34-56.

 

[fstdraw]

Thank you Sir for that run down on Winnies. You are clearly a scholar if not a gentelman.

 

[Legion489]

Thank you Sir for that run down on Winnies. You are clearly a scholar if not a gentelman.

You misspelled "and", but that's OK, as a gentleman, I can overlook that, and the spelling.

 

[AK0perator47]

In 1882 Winchester designed the 32-20 aka 32WCF and was going to make a new rifle for the round.

Just prior to 1882 they were having problems with management and they tried introducing the 1876 model which was a lengthened version of the Henry action in order to allow for the larger calibers that their competition was introducing.

So, when they tried the 1876 and failed they abandoned/discontinued it and went back to their 1873 model. When they introduced the 32-20 in 1882, they were going to make a new line of rifle but because of management and fear of failure again, they abandoned the new rifle which was supposed to be the 1882.

They ended up buying the rights to JMB falling block that was patented in 1879. And they decided to just make the 32-20 in the 1873 model for the simple fact they were already successful with it and they didn't want to be left behind because of the competition already starting to make 45-60, 45-90, 50-90 express and even the 45-70 govt. I enjoy the rifles and love history. I hope that you understand what I was saying about the fact that they were going to make the model 1882; when they created the caliber 32-20 but, they didn't create it for the aforementioned reason I listed up above. Almost every single firearm and known designer worked for or came from Winchester. Which was originally Volcanic Arms prior to moving to New Haven, CT.

Anyway, it's awesome that she found something really cool and enjoys it. I have some old ammunition that most people would be amazed with.

 

[RVTECH]

Hi all, my wife found this casing and another while metal detecting in west Michigan.

Always fun to find something unique!

I am a very long term MD'r and while I've dug a LOT of cases and bullets I have occasionally found some very old ones as well.

I found a.33 Winchester a couple years ago at a spring near Fort Rock. I have found a couple all brass SG shells, and a very old .30-30 case on my own property.

I have also found some old loaded rounds as well. Once a .30 Luger round at an old homestead site and a ,45-70 round once.

 

[JRapRobert]

Thanks everyone for the great history and info. She went back to the same spot today and found a handful of other casings of a couple different types.
.38 s&w UMC (do I understand these to be older than 1917 when rem bought out UMC?)

Other .38 s&w WR A Co.

And another that looks like same caliber but too tarnished to read.

 

[Mikej]

I never heard of a Winchester 1882. 1892 yes.

There was the Winchester Model 1886. Built to handle the extra pressure from larger smokeless cartridge's of the time.

Winchester Model 1886 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RVTECH]

There was the Winchester Model 1886

And they were beautiful, well built rifles.

I held, and looked at one in .33 WCF a few years ago. Pure excellence.

 

[41mag]

Expectation and hope for new discoveries generate a large market in various equipment and gear.