Old 9mm ammo - apparently made in Canada. Anyone got any info?

Toxic6 · May 16, 2012

So I have this old ammo - appears to be made for subguns, comes 64 rounds to a box and has crimped primers. Looking online doesn't bring up a lot of info, about the only things I have found talk about it being made by Dominion of Canada, and purposely stamped to look like it was WWII surplus when it is apparently not. There are a couple threads out there, mostly based off what is discussed on the iaaforum from what i can tell, which say that it was made for use in China or for clandestine cia ops where they needed untraceable ammo. Any of you ammo guys recognize it? And yes, I can probably spare a couple rounds for you collectors if we can make a good thread here.

Here is what I know. Unmarked brown cardboard box with insert. Insert contains 64 rounds. Brass cased ball ammo (thinking it is 124 grain but I can pull a bullet and weigh it to make sure if necessary). Has what appears to be crimped and sealed boxer primers. Headstamps read "9 MM 41" "9 MM 42" and "9 MM 43".

deadshot2 · May 17, 2012

Based on the numbers I would right off think WWII. This ammo could well have been produced for the Sten and may be a little "High Pressure" for many pistols.

I'd only shoot it in a pistol rated for +P ammo.

Toxic6 · May 17, 2012

yeah it seems like a little hotter then standard ammo...I don't have a chronograph but i could pull one and weigh the powder and bullet weights. 64 rounds to a box further backs the sten gun use at 32 rounds to a magazine.

The head stamp does make you think WWII but there are conflicts with that date and Canadian production at the time......and apparently the black sealant wasn't used till the 50's. I can regurgitate more of what i read on the iaa forum but was hoping someone here had any more insight to it's history/source beyond that.

jimwsea · May 17, 2012

Here is a link to a website with headstamps

Headstamp Codes on Small Arms Ammunition

One MM listed, but with a space between the letters. That would be Musgrave Manufacturers and Distributors (Pty) Ltd, P O Box 183, Bloemfontein, Republic of South Africa.

deadshot2 · May 18, 2012

Toxic6 said:
yeah it seems like a little hotter then standard ammo...I don't have a chronograph but i could pull one and weigh the powder and bullet weights. 64 rounds to a box further backs the sten gun use at 32 rounds to a magazine.

The head stamp does make you think WWII but there are conflicts with that date and Canadian production at the time......and apparently the black sealant wasn't used till the 50's. I can regurgitate more of what i read on the iaa forum but was hoping someone here had any more insight to it's history/source beyond that.

The use of "sealant" might not be a good dating method. Sometimes the use of various materials is "manufacturer specific" and doesn't necessarily become part of the "standard" until much later.

You're gave another clue that would lead me to hold with my "WWII Production" guess. Also, consider that the sealant may not have been used until the 50's but the factory had a warehouse full of brass from the previous decade. The headstamp is applied at the time the case is formed and the primer pocket/flash hole being "punched". The dating codes for ammo rotation would then be printed or stamped on the boxes.