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Old 9mm ammo - apparently made in Canada. Anyone got any info?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Toxic6, May 16, 2012.

  1. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    So I have this old ammo - appears to be made for subguns, comes 64 rounds to a box and has crimped primers. Looking online doesn't bring up a lot of info, about the only things I have found talk about it being made by Dominion of Canada, and purposely stamped to look like it was WWII surplus when it is apparently not. There are a couple threads out there, mostly based off what is discussed on the iaaforum from what i can tell, which say that it was made for use in China or for clandestine cia ops where they needed untraceable ammo. Any of you ammo guys recognize it? And yes, I can probably spare a couple rounds for you collectors if we can make a good thread here.


    Here is what I know. Unmarked brown cardboard box with insert. Insert contains 64 rounds. Brass cased ball ammo (thinking it is 124 grain but I can pull a bullet and weigh it to make sure if necessary). Has what appears to be crimped and sealed boxer primers. Headstamps read "9 MM 41" "9 MM 42" and "9 MM 43".

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  2. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Based on the numbers I would right off think WWII. This ammo could well have been produced for the Sten and may be a little "High Pressure" for many pistols.

    I'd only shoot it in a pistol rated for +P ammo.
     
  3. Toxic6

    Toxic6 Higher then a PDX hipster (~10,000 ft higher) Active Member

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    yeah it seems like a little hotter then standard ammo...I don't have a chronograph but i could pull one and weigh the powder and bullet weights. 64 rounds to a box further backs the sten gun use at 32 rounds to a magazine.

    The head stamp does make you think WWII but there are conflicts with that date and Canadian production at the time......and apparently the black sealant wasn't used till the 50's. I can regurgitate more of what i read on the iaa forum but was hoping someone here had any more insight to it's history/source beyond that.
     
  4. jimwsea

    jimwsea Vancouver, Washington state Active Member

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    Here is a link to a website with headstamps

    Headstamp Codes on Small Arms Ammunition

    One MM listed, but with a space between the letters. That would be Musgrave Manufacturers and Distributors (Pty) Ltd, P O Box 183, Bloemfontein, Republic of South Africa.
     
    ogre and (deleted member) like this.
  5. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    The use of "sealant" might not be a good dating method. Sometimes the use of various materials is "manufacturer specific" and doesn't necessarily become part of the "standard" until much later.

    You're gave another clue that would lead me to hold with my "WWII Production" guess. Also, consider that the sealant may not have been used until the 50's but the factory had a warehouse full of brass from the previous decade. The headstamp is applied at the time the case is formed and the primer pocket/flash hole being "punched". The dating codes for ammo rotation would then be printed or stamped on the boxes.