Messages
7,884
Reactions
22,014
Do you realize how many YEARS that cases appealed to the Ninth Circuit take? John Kaempf thought that he roped a cash cow with OFF and rushed an appeal to the Ninth without Kevin's approval.

Not wanting to pay hundreds of thousands of your dollars, Kevin fired the guy, who then billed $66,000 for three days work. Instead of providing OFF with the requested detailed billing, the lawyer ran to Commie Bernstein BEFORE filing against OFF. What a scumbag!
 
Messages
7,677
Reactions
12,867
makes me wonder then what it would be like to find a pro gun rights attorney in Oregon?
I don't know but it shouldn't be hard. Basically you call a firm you know or whoever and they reference someone who specializes that if they don't have one in their firm. Or of course there are many bigger 2A specific attorney firms out there they could just call. For example GOA won the Harney County judge case (I mean "won" so far).

I just did a 30 second search on Google:

7965F52B-051D-4B2F-9947-3AB7BB4D1E0E.jpeg 2168E2E0-940E-43F3-B0EC-83701909B099.jpeg 8715A0D2-53FA-4B5D-8F82-E17632986C9B.jpeg
 
Last Edited:
Messages
7,677
Reactions
12,867
Do you realize how many YEARS that cases appealed to the Ninth Circuit take? John Kaempf thought that he roped a cash cow with OFF and rushed an appeal to the Ninth without Kevin's approval.

Not wanting to pay hundreds of thousands of your dollars, Kevin fired the guy, who then billed $66,000 for three days work. Instead of providing OFF with the requested detailed billing, the lawyer ran to Commie Bernstein BEFORE filing against OFF. What a scumbag!
Kind of sounds like bubblegumty behavior consistent with an ambulance chaser and pedophile defender. I bet you are right on the expected cash cow thing.
 
Messages
3,123
Reactions
4,798
Did you catch the part where Kevin fired the guy?
So just putting this out there, and I know that you previously said it was 'public record', but might there be a chance that Keven SAID he fired him but never actually went through all the proper steps of firing him? AFAIK it's not like firing a yard guy or your mechanic, when you are involved in a active court case I believe that you need to file a substitution of attorney motion (or at least notification?) with the court or something
 
Messages
9,279
Reactions
15,640
So just putting this out there, and I know that you previously said it was 'public record', but might there be a chance that Keven SAID he fired him but never actually went through all the proper steps of firing him? AFAIK it's not like firing a yard guy or your mechanic, when you are involved in a active court case I believe that you need to file a substitution of attorney motion (or at least notification?) with the court or something
shrug, got me. I dont know how the process works so we would both be speculating here. I dont have any reason to suspect he didnt actually fire him.
 
Messages
1,812
Reactions
3,211
That I don't know and a good question. I've never had to hire an attorney so I cant imagine how difficult the vetting would be.
He bragged about defending child molesters on his web site. Not too hard to figure out that he was hiring a piece of $#!+. So, Kevin Starrett is completely illiterate, he just can't comprehend simple English, or he has no problem giving donated dollars to scum bags so that he can keep selling books and patches under the guise of defending gun owners. Again, screw that guy and his organization.
 
Messages
4,028
Reactions
6,113
Help me out here. What lawyer did YOU hire to help in htis fight. When did YOU file a lawsuit against 114.

I get so sick of do nothing a-holes that complain about everything but don't personally lift a finger. Ya, lets keep ancle biting the people fighting for us, that'll solve more pronlems than lazy a$$es actually doing something constructive.
 
Messages
1
Reactions
0
shrug, got me. I dont know how the process works so we would both be speculating here. I dont have any reason to suspect he didnt actually fire him.
Help me out here. What lawyer did YOU hire to help in htis fight. When did YOU file a lawsuit against 114.

I get so sick of do nothing a-holes that complain about everything but don't personally lift a finger. Ya, lets keep ancle biting the people fighting for us, that'll solve more pronlems than lazy a$$es actually doing something constructive.

👍
 
Messages
6,278
Reactions
15,978
Help me out here. What lawyer did YOU hire to help in htis fight. When did YOU file a lawsuit against 114.

I get so sick of do nothing a-holes that complain about everything but don't personally lift a finger. Ya, lets keep ancle biting the people fighting for us, that'll solve more pronlems than lazy a$$es actually doing something constructive.
Exactly
 
Messages
4,028
Reactions
6,113
So just putting this out there, and I know that you previously said it was 'public record', but might there be a chance that Keven SAID he fired him but never actually went through all the proper steps of firing him? AFAIK it's not like firing a yard guy or your mechanic, when you are involved in a active court case I believe that you need to file a substitution of attorney motion (or at least notification?) with the court or something
Notice of Substitution Of Councel was filed on December 9th. It's document 53 of Case2:22-cv-01815-IM.
 
Messages
3
Reactions
8
Here is my interpretation of this non-story: OFF, the little grassroots 2A org that has been distinctly stalwart in opposing the anti-gunner agenda in OR, is now 30 days late paying a legal bill, after the holidays, and basically got sent to collections.

So, OL's super-liberal Maxine Bernstein writes an article as a hit piece, attempting to elevate this to a big scandal and implying that OFF is scammy. She's trying to get folks to think twice before sending OFF donations.

My impression of OFF in recent years is that they are small, and sometimes disorganized, but principled to a fault. This just says to me the right response is to send OFF more money as soon as I can manage it.
👍
 
Messages
3
Reactions
8
OFF Response to lawsuit just received via email
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

01.20.2023

By now you may have heard or seen stories in the media claiming that the firm "representing" Oregon Firearms Federation in our Federal lawsuit is owed thousands of dollars in legal fees.

This allegation is false.

Maxine Bernstein ([email protected]; 503-221-8212) a "reporter" for the failing "Oregonian" who made these allegations (which were parroted by others in the cartel media), knows it's false.

Even though she undoubtedly knew it was false when she wrote it, she has not corrected it. She did add one sentence to the online version of her story after it was published, and after being reminded that her allegation was false, but even that "correction" is misleading at best, as it was intended to be.

OFF's legal team is intact and paid. Bernstein's allegation is false, period.

The lawsuit in question, which Bernstein oddly knew about a day before the papers were even served on OFF and Kevin Starrett, is from John Kaempf.

Those papers were served at 4.30PM yesterday. Bernstein's story was first posted on January 18th at 9.15.AM

John Kaempf is a lawyer who was employed by us for less than three weeks. He was "relieved of his duties" on Dec 8th. All of this is public record, a record Bernstein follows obsessively.

As you know, after our hearing requesting that Measure 114 be stayed, the Federal Judge denied our motions, only allowing a delay in the implementation of the permit process, a process even the state admitted was impossible to put into place.

On Dec. 7th Kaempf, with no consultation with his clients, (which include several Oregon Sheriffs) took actions that were unwise and costly. Kaempf did not inform us that he was planning to take this action or request input or permission before he took it. The action was a hasty and poorly considered appeal directly to the 9th Circuit Court.

On the same day, in a Zoom call with the plaintiffs in the case, (OFF, two gun dealers and several Oregon Sheriffs) Kaempf categorically denied having filed the appeal. He later filed a motion to withdraw the appeal he claimed not to have filed. All these filings are public record.

On the following day, after it became clear that Kaempf had misled his clients and saddled them with additional and unnecessary costs, Kaempf was terminated with a request for a final bill.

When the bill arrived for a total of $66,161.82, (over the $60,000.00 he had already been paid) it included charges that can only be described as "highly questionable". It included thousands of dollars in billing for dates before we even signed a fee agreement with him. It included charges for over 20 hours on a single day.

And, of course, it included billing for the time he claims to have spent preparing and then withdrawing the appeal he claimed not to have filed in the first place and the associated filing fees.

We reached out to Kaempf twice asking for an explanation for many questionable items on his bill. Kaempf refused to answer a single question. In fact, in an email on Dec. 28th Kaempf wrote "And do not take my not responding to your various allegations now and going forward to mean anything."

On January 18th the media was reporting on the lawsuit which was filed for a bill supposedly 3 days overdue. At no time prior to that did Kaempf communicate in any way to seek a resolution. He immediately filed a lawsuit.

As noted, we were not even served until January 19th. In his lawsuit Kaempf claims to have worked on the Federal lawsuit for "several months." In fact, he was employed by us for less than three weeks.

For over 25 years, Oregon Firearms Federation and the Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation have a perfect record of on-time or early payments to everyone we do business with. That includes the many lawyers we have had the privilege of working with. However, we do have a responsibility to our donors in the way we spend their money.

In this case, we have made several attempts to get answers from an attorney we were forced to fire because of his behavior. Rather than respond he has chosen to very publicly sue us. That was his choice.

We regret this distraction but will vigorously respond to his lawsuit. We will not blindly write massive checks for bills that will not be explained. Because it's not our money.

Thank you for your continued support.
👍
 
Messages
5,997
Reactions
14,778
And this whole thread is why I'm about done with this place. Trying to help defend the 2A rights of gun owners is like herding cats, and just as rewarding. The fired lawyer creates a fraudulent bill and runs to the Oregonian with the story prior to actually filing suit, and a significant portion of the gun community just uncritically laps the Oregonian's story up. It's like they take great pleasure in predicting that they will be screwed and then are gleefully willing to believe any propaganda that says they have been. OFF's letter of explanation pretty much matches my initial assumptions about the situation. Why they hired this lawyer I don't know, but I was unimpressed with his performance initially, and they fired him after only a few days. I expected the sort of situation described in the letter to be the case. But you who want to believe you're being screwed will never be convinced that you aren't, and frankly I'm having a hard time giving a damn. Believe what you want to.
 
Messages
7,677
Reactions
12,867
And this whole thread is why I'm about done with this place. Trying to help defend the 2A rights of gun owners is like herding cats, and just as rewarding. The fired lawyer creates a fraudulent bill and runs to the Oregonian with the story prior to actually filing suit, and a significant portion of the gun community just uncritically laps the Oregonian's story up. It's like they take great pleasure in predicting that they will be screwed and then are gleefully willing to believe any propaganda that says they have been. OFF's letter of explanation pretty much matches my initial assumptions about the situation. Why they hired this lawyer I don't know, but I was unimpressed with his performance initially, and they fired him after only a few days. I expected the sort of situation described in the letter to be the case. But you who want to believe you're being screwed will never be convinced that you aren't, and frankly I'm having a hard time giving a damn. Believe what you want to.
They hire an unqualified pedophile defender and ambulance chaser for a 2A case and you think people should applaud them, is that what you mean?

We see examples of people doing really stupid things and it rightfully gets called out for what it is, but we can't do that in this example?
 
Last Edited:
Messages
5,997
Reactions
14,778
They hire an unqualified pedophile defender and ambulance chaser for a 2A case and you think people should applaud them, is that what you mean?

We see examples of people doing really stupid things and it rightfully gets called out for what it is, but we can't do that in this example?
I questioned why they hired him at the time. I also expressed my dismay that it was Kevin leading the charge against M114 when IMHO he's acted irrationally in the past. That's beside the point. The lawyer was fired for filing unauthorized motions and then created an inflated bill and ran to the press with it, but most here were instantly willing to believe that OFF hadn't paid a legitimate bill, was a deadbeat organization, and was going broke, mostly because it fits their victimhood narrative.
 

Upcoming Events

Centralia Gun Show
Centralia, WA
Oregon Arms Collectors March Gun Show
Portland, OR
ONRI Rally at the Capitol
Salem, OR

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top