Official statement from A Cut Above Pawn regarding transfers

[arakboss]

In my hypothetical, the buyer would sign to gunsmith terms and sign the 4473 under one roof without leaving with the firearm; potentially without even handling it. That transfers ownership to the buyer and forms a contractual agreement between the buyer and gunsmith until the terms have been fulfilled. It's not exactly a trustless model but I don't see a gap there.

I think this could work for FFLs who don't want customers to walk out of store without a proceed from OSP.

Example:

Frank has been waiting for bg approval for 4 days. He goes into shop and ask them to do a no response release of firearm. They agree to release the firearm to him if he immediately hands it back over to the gunsmith desk for a safety check and is willing to wait until they receive a proceed from OSP before he picks it up from the gunsmith desk. Once the proceed comes through the owner can pick up the firearm from the gunsmith desk and pay a fee for the safety check that was performed. He will not need to do a background check to retrieve it from gunsmith desk.

The firearm was marked as being released in retail book and then entered in to the gunsmith book. All of this can happen in the same store by the same FFL.

 

[arakboss]

I think this could work for FFLs who don't want customers to walk out of store without a proceed from OSP.

Example:

Frank has been waiting for bg approval for 4 days. He goes into shop and ask them to do a no response release of firearm. They agree to release the firearm to him if he immediately hands it back over to the gunsmith desk for a safety check and is willing to wait until they receive a proceed from OSP before he picks it up from the gunsmith desk. Once the proceed comes through the owner can pick up the firearm from the gunsmith desk and pay a fee for the safety check that was performed. He will not need to do a background check to retrieve it from gunsmith desk.

The firearm was marked as being released in retail book and then entered in to the gunsmith book. All of this can happen in the same store under the same FFL.

This system could be used in lieu of pawning.

Example: A person comes into FFL with gun he wants to pawn for $100. Pawn shop informs him that if he pawns the gun he will need a permit to purchase when he pays off loan and wants to retrieve the gun. Guy is very disappointed.

The pawn shop informs him that they have a safety check special going for $150 and you get $100 cash when you drop the gun off. The guy drops the gun off and walks out with $100 cash. FFL enters gun into gunsmith book and performs safety check on firearm. A month later owner comes in with $150 and picks up his gun. No 4473 required.

 

[BPS2271]

In my hypothetical, the buyer would sign to gunsmith terms and sign the 4473 under one roof without leaving with the firearm; potentially without even handling it. That transfers ownership to the buyer and forms a contractual agreement between the buyer and gunsmith until the terms have been fulfilled. It's not exactly a trustless model but I don't see a gap there.

And just exactly what do think the ATF, et. al. would have to say about this scam? Because it is clearly a scam. Keep in mind that they are NOT friendly and have unlimited resources. Unlimited.

 

[arakboss]

And just exactly what do think the ATF, et. al. would have to say about this scam? Because it is clearly a scam. Keep in mind that they are NOT friendly and have unlimited resources. Unlimited.

Scam, lol

You are blowing your cover.

 

[DragoonCabbage]

And just exactly what do think the ATF, et. al. would have to say about this scam? Because it is clearly a scam. Keep in mind that they are NOT friendly and have unlimited resources. Unlimited.

Please explain who you think is being scammed and in what fashion. The phrase "scam" suggests that you've actually misunderstood my remarks.

I don't see what the ATF would have to say about it. From their perspective, the FFL has released the firearm under the 3-day rule. The gunsmith merely keeps custody while the BGC is processing. They're effectively assisting the ATF.

Keep in mind that this would only serve to bridge the gap for current transfers. After measure 114 takes effect, FFLs must wait for the BGC to come back approved regardless.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

And just exactly what do think the ATF, et. al. would have to say about this scam? Because it is clearly a scam. Keep in mind that they are NOT friendly and have unlimited resources. Unlimited.

"Never pick a fight with someone that pays their lawyers with your money"

 

[BPS2271]

Because it is CLEARLY an imaginative "workaround" to skirt the law. They do NOT respond well to such things. Many FFL's have learned this the hard way. And they read forums like this.

 

[BPS2271]

Scam, lol

You are blowing your cover.


View attachment 1321094

Nice try. Just a retired Police Sergeant with a tiny bit of knowledge and experience.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

I don't think any FFL holder, dealer or gunsmith, will do some convoluted transfer to resolve desperation of their customer.

Remember, FFL holders primary business is to make money. They are not going to risk losing a license or being sued so you can maintain your 2A rights. If they were willing, they would not require you to do a transfer in the first place or would have allowed 3 day releases all along.

The primary reason FFL's are starting to release after 3 days is they have to make money. In a week, all gun sales will stop and a major portion of their business is gone and will not likely return. The three day release is allowing them to make as much money as possible before it happens. Don't be misled they are doing it for your 2A rights. They are businessmen and are trying to survive.

I am not knocking down FFL's as anti 2A here. Many FFL's, like other firearm owners, spend time and money fighting for 2A rights. However, they're not going to die on the 2A hill doing a convoluted transfer just for you.

 

[BPS2271]

I don't think any FFL holder, dealer or gunsmith, will do some convoluted transfer to resolve desperation of their customer.

Remember, FFL holders primary business is to make money. They are not going to risk losing a license or being sued so you can maintain your 2A rights. If they were willing, they would not require you to do a transfer in the first place or would have allowed 3 day releases all along.

The primary reason FFL's are starting to release after 3 days is they have to make money. In a week, all gun sales will stop and a major portion of their business is gone and will not likely return. The three day release is allowing them to make as much money as possible before it happens. Don't be misled they are doing it for your 2A rights. They are businessmen and are trying to survive.

I am not knocking down FFL's as anti 2A here. Many FFL's, like other firearm owners, spend time and money fighting for 2A rights. However, they're not going to die on the 2A hill doing a convoluted transfer just for you.

Precisely.

 

[arakboss]

I don't think any FFL holder, dealer or gunsmith, will do some convoluted transfer to resolve desperation of their customer.

Remember, FFL holders primary business is to make money. They are not going to risk losing a license or being sued so you can maintain your 2A rights. If they were willing, they would not require you to do a transfer in the first place or would have allowed 3 day releases all along.

The primary reason FFL's are starting to release after 3 days is they have to make money. In a week, all gun sales will stop and a major portion of their business is gone and will not likely return. The three day release is allowing them to make as much money as possible before it happens. Don't be misled they are doing it for your 2A rights. They are businessmen and are trying to survive.

I am not knocking down FFL's as anti 2A here. Many FFL's, like other firearm owners, spend time and money fighting for 2A rights. However, they're not going to die on the 2A hill doing a convoluted transfer just for you.

As long as convoluted is legal they can use it to make money. Nothing proposed by myself or cabbagepatchkid is illegal.

 

[arakboss]

FFLs are going to have to think outside the box to make money now. The easy stream of transfer fees is going bye bye and they will have to work harder and smarter to make that income up.

 

[Camelfilter]

Thread locked at OP request.