Officers Kills Officer and Civilian

[Father of four]

Baltimore officer was killed by fellow officers

<broken link removed>

"BALTIMORE &#8211; Baltimore police say that fellow officers fired the gun shots that killed a plainclothes officer during a melee outside a nightclub.

A 22-year-old civilian was also killed in the early Sunday morning shooting.

Police Commissioner Frederick H. Bealefield III said on Monday that no civilians fired any shots.

Officer William Torbit Jr. was on duty in plainclothes when he responded to a report of trouble at the club. Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi (goo-lee-EHL-mee) says Torbit was trying to break up a fight when he was attacked and pulled out his weapon to defend himself.

At some point after that, officers opened fire, killing the officer. Police say Torbit was wearing his badge but there were no other indicators he was police.

The officers who fired are on administrative leave."


Like I said in the "Officer Kills Veteran" thread. The Police need to be held accountable. They are making life ending mistakes. Will this be another "Good Shot Officers...Everything was within Police Procedure... No officers were charged...etc."

I believe the Proper Police Procedure need to be reevaluated...With Added Civilian Supervision. They are continuing in their mistakes and they need to be held accountable for those mistakes. At least the Mayors and our Representatives should look into them and see whats going on.

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[Father of four]

Holy...........Five officers, including the slain Officer William Torbit Jr., fired a total of 41 shots outside Club Select...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...as-killed-by-fellow-officers.html?s_cid=rss-5

No civilians fired any shots!!!!!!!

 

[Father of four]

...

"The department is "committed to conducting a comprehensive and thorough investigation," Bealefeld said. "We must understand it, learn from it, and emerge better."

It aint right people.

 

[Father of four]

Witnesses...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ss2 (Books & Magazines)&utm_source=feedburner


"The women, both 26, saw the plainclothes officer get overwhelmed by an unruly crowd, then watched as two uniformed officers opened fire while he lay on the ground. The women also saw the pained reaction of the slain officer's partners once they realized what had happened."

 

[Mosinman]

First off you say quote:

"Like I said in the "Officer Kills Veteran" thread. The Police need to be held accountable. They are making life ending mistakes. Will this be another "Good Shot Officers...Everything was within Police Procedure... No officers were charged...etc."

I believe the Proper Police Procedure need to be reevaluated...With Added Civilian Supervision. They are continuing in their mistakes and they need to be held accountable for those mistakes. At least the Mayors and our Representatives should look into them and see what's going on. "

They are looking into it as its states they are on admin leave. But it sounds like you want the Salem Witch Trials to come back and rubber stamp your assumption on this. A good review of the facts is what is needed with NO emotion added. The review of the facts (which is forth coming) will help this from happening in the future and hold them accountable. Do the officers have the same rights as you and me, or are they a separate class. Are they American citizens and have due process? Think about what you are saying here and step-back a second before you write for Pete's sake. This is embarrassing to read as a gun owner with a CPL. Your hate of the Police stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[Binder]

"The [plainclothes officer] was … on his back, and two uniformed officers, they took a couple steps back and just fired at him while he was lying on the ground," the university employee said.

Hutcherson, who heard multiple gunshots, recounted how her roommate relayed to her what was happening: "She said, 'Oh my God, they're killing him. He's not even moving, he's laying on the ground with his hands up.' "

If this is true then there is something very wrong with the training these officers are getting. In my opinion having a plain clothes officer in a situation like that is just asking for trouble.........Strange how the fallen officer was picked up and rushed to the hospital while the other guy laid there for a half hour with no attention.

 

[Father of four]

They are looking into it as its states they are on admin leave. They are investigating their own I think outside investigating should be used.

But it sounds like you want the Salem Witch Trials to come back and rubber stamp your assumption on this. Seems to me they are having severe assumption problems. Is it bad for me to want them...ANYONE to be accountable for their actions?

A good review of the facts is what is needed with NO emotion added. A review from the police union of the officers that did it? Yeah right they will surely have no emotions. You can read many officers comments themselves and see they are very emotional. Shouldn't someone else less emotional..say a third party investigate it? Wouldn't that be better?

The review of the facts (which is forth coming) will help this from happening in the future and hold them accountable. Do the officers have the same rights as you and me, or are they a separate class. No they should have the same rights..so should we have the same rights as them.

Are they American citizens and have due process? Yes, they are but they get to regulate themselves. Will they take part of the citizens due process or their own?

Think about what you are saying here and step-back a second before you write for Pete's sake. I have thought about what I have said. The Police have killed someone AGAIN who hand a firearm on them. Both times the people were within their legal rights to have their firearms on them. One was an officer for Christs sake!!!! Both were wrongfully killed and many people on different forums agree with me that the police were in the wrong. I think they should be held accountable. They should not be able to do an internal investigation by themselves and they will show impartiality towards their fellow officers. The police know that. And so do the citizens.


This is embarrassing to read as a gun owner with a CPL. This is showing that even if you have a CHL and you dot all of you i's and cross you t's you still have a REAL BIG CHANCE of being shot and killed for just having a firearm on you...Legally! There should be an outcry from people like yourself.

Your hate of the Police stands out like a sore thumb. No I do not! We need Police! We need them to be truthful, honorable and trustworthy! Things keep happening in their departments that is illegal and We the People see it but they keep internal investigating and self regulate themselves while those crimes continue again and again and again. We citizens go to jail for the stuff they get away with. For the most part they do get away with murder. Where is their accountability?

I posted earlier for everyone to read the other peoples comments. Did you? Didn't you see what other people are saying? Do you think all of us hate cops just because we are again losing more trust in them? Do you think they should be held accountable from an outside source?

 

[Father of four]

Binder,

Right. Be careful...you too may be blamed for cop basing or being a cop hater... shouldn't the citizens with firearms be concerned about this? Shouldn't we demand accountability?

 

[Binder]

Understood and for the record I'm not a cop hater at all. You have to admit though it reads as if though these cops were out of line.......I did write the disclaimer "If this is true".

 

[Scott]

Police training at its finest. This happens everyday in some city. I am glad we have the police. Tax dollars and unions, no drug testing all makes great cops. You really wonder what they were thinking. 41 rounds is a lot in my eyes. Shell casings everywhere and why?

 

[Father of four]

Exactly. But we citizens are to wait and see what they come up with after they self investigate themselves? Did they give the Veteran and that Slain Officer a chance? Doesn't seem like it to me. CHL owners should be very concerned!

 

[Scott]

Heck I am afraid period. I would rather be overseas again as it seems safer. I don't trust MOST police, they seen nervous, untrained and ready to jump the gun. Before you call me a name or something I said MOST I did not say all.

I would put money on it that nothing happens and thats another reason I would not open carry in a city. Because the law is NOT on your side. Which is a shame.

 

[Mosinman]

Father or four:

If you are not a cop basher, are you going to level the playing field here and talk about the good Police shootings? Are you going to have the same enthusiasm to talk about the officers killed confronting some of these nuts? You make yourself out to be a person after justice, but are your views of justice level? You oblivious have a hidden agenda here. If the average citizen came along and read your postings they would view them as very biased toward pre judging the coppers. At least that is what the guys at work here think that have looked at your postings.
If you guys do not have any trust for the Police why don't some of you step up to the plate and volunteer at a Police Dept for citizen involvement or as a Reserve Police person. My buddy just read this post and said here in the Tacoma the newspaper says that they have citizens that are on the review board for shootings. In fact when you Google that subject, more and more citizens are on these Police boards. In Seattle the whole board is citizens per the PI newspaper. Set aside your emotions and start seeking facts if you want people to take you seriously.

 

[Father of four]

I will give credit to good cops. The ones who try to do the best they can. Everyone makes mistakes and cops are no different. There are ALOT of Great police officers out there! Some even pay with there own lives. I appreciate what they do. Alot of them are trying to do the right thing.

But calling "them nuts" are you calling the Slain Officer a nut? Are you calling the Slain Veteran a nut? What about other people who are mishandled by the police? Are we nuts for also expecting respect and civility?

 

[Father of four]

Mosinman,
Do you and your fellow employees think everything is on the up and up in our law enforcement agency? Do you think its OK for some of them to lie, for some of them to break the laws they are supposed to be upholding? Do you think the Internal Investigations are unbiased?

 

[Father of four]

As for seeking facts. I posted links to different web sites about the story. One was from an officers web site. While these are not what we see behind closed doors this is what we have to work with. People divulge information for us to see. We make assumptions just like a officer does before he/she has the facts based on past experience and knowledge. I/we do not know all the facts.

Can we not come to a possible conclusion that the officers killed their own because he was protecting himself and they shot and killed him without giving him a chance to tell them why he had to shoot to defend himself. 41 shots...probably minus a few from the Slain Officer. Is it jumping to conclusions to say there are some real problems with what happened? Should we trust them to correct themselves with their own track record?

 

[Mosinman]

I asked the guys here and we think we have a pretty good Depts up here, but not perfect. When you find perfect in anything let me know. I'm not sure how it is in the Peoples Republic of Oregon.

In fact we in Tacoma always pass bond issues to help our Dept with new buildings and facilities. They have done a Cracker Jack job reducing crime over the past 20 years as we lived in a killing zone.

If there is EVIDENCE of wrong doing by the Police we think they should pay for it. But we do not ***-u-me that unless there is evidence that a court of law would recognize....not emotion. We refuse to sit in the peanut galley and throw rocks at our cops. Like I said, get involved instead of throwing stones and get informed.

The big hidden conspiracy just isn't there. Internal affairs are not the only way at getting to the truth in our system of Govt. We have law suits too. Our courts are the great levelers of our society. Whether good or bad it's the best leveler in the world.

 

[Father of four]

OK.

 

[Trlsmn]

Closed as the debaten ow has little to do with the incident in the original post.