Officers Kill Veteran

[jimwsea]

People go nuts, whether they have Masters degrees, or are good fathers, or are veterans, or are police.

 

[JohnWayne]

Sounds like a good shoot. Minus those here with tinfoil on their heads

based on the information in the article, that is.

 

[JohnWayne]

It was a lot worse than that if you followed the case trust me. They flat out lied and tried to cover it up. It is incidents such as these that widen the “us vs. them” gap and rightly so. They also raided two places simultaneously for the same suspect, knowing full well at least one had to be the wrong place. After the tragedy occurred, they tried to make up a story about how the “misfire” occurred during a confrontation with a woman inside the apartment. It was classic scumbag BS and they got popped for it. The family will no doubt receive a massive payoff but that doesn’t help the little girl with her brains on the deck.

With regards to cops and cameras, cameras have saved a whole lot more cop tail then they have burned. An honest cop doing a respectable job has nothing to fear from a camera as it will only serve to protect him/her from false allocations and be evidence to help prosecute dirtbags.

No tits, its people commenting on supposition that widens the "us vs. them" gap. So, since I don't "trust" you regarding this, tell us what is "worse" than we think. Since you are following this case more than we are, explain how it is worse, please.

Your raid story is a separate incident and I can't comment on it.

As far as cameras go, I agree that they save more cops than burned them. If the departments got funding for cameras, I have no doubt they would have them. If I remember right, Seattle was suppose to get those pager style cameras, I wonder if they got the funding for them?

 

[Woodswalker]

This story makes me really think about my choice to carry concealed, and how I might handle being 'outed.' Maybe that is what should be discussed, rather than all the hypotheticals about the cops, witnesses & victim here? What would YOU do if outed in Costco/Walmart/the bank???

I've calmly LEFT...a whole cart of frozen goods standing in the aisle. I returned some hours later, STILL CARRYING but in a different coat (longer) and picked up where i left off...carefully checking the goods for signs of having been partially thawed and refrozen.

I KNOW all the gals at the bank...they KNOW i carry...I get ASKED by them, quietly, WHAT I'm packing...I just raise my eyebrows and smile. Its been beneficial more than once.

 

[Karma]

Sounds like a good shoot. Minus those here with tinfoil on their heads

based on the information in the article, that is.

I don't know. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information. The cops said he pulled a gun, but it didn't sound to me like any of the civilians backed that story up at all! They said he went nuts in the store, but what does that mean?

I know that there have been way too many shootings that shouldn't have happened by officers.

 

[sprice37]

Two can play at this game.

Slaying of Army veteran shocks friends - News - ReviewJournal.com

So exactly what is the game???

 

[swoop]

I've known about Costco's anti-gun policy for years, and keep it well concealed while shopping there. All it takes is one chicken little 911 call to cause a persons needless death. A good example of that would be the man that had the cops called on him for pointing a water hose nozel at people up in Washington. Not to blame the cops on that one, but they should never have been called in the first place.

 

[rsmccsman]

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/legal-political/35318-lv-pd-sure-screwed-up-today.html

FYI In case anyone is interested here is the original thread on this subject from last summer. As I predicted at the time nothing happened to the officers but a civil suit is pending.

My best guess is one officer saw the gun freaked out and pulled the trigger (a split second reaction no time to think about it and not keeping finger out of the trigger guard.) which in turned triggered (pardon the pun) the spontaneous pulling of their triggers by the other officers who were also hopped up on adrenaline because they were responding to a call for a man with a gun. Tragic shooting.

 

[JohnWayne]

I don't know. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information. The cops said he pulled a gun, but it didn't sound to me like any of the civilians backed that story up at all! They said he went nuts in the store, but what does that mean?

I know that there have been way too many shootings that shouldn't have happened by officers.

Yeah, on the surface, the difference between statements SEEM bad but one thing to remember is that no two people see the same thing. None of the witnesses were focused on this guy like the police are. Their only business is to deal with this guy.

Every one else has their own business and may have not even known what was going on until they REACT to what they hear or see. We know that reaction time lags behind action.

Again, its never for me to say 100% justified but based simply on the facts in the NEWS artical, it sounded like a justified use of force.

 

[mjbskwim]

Ooo kayyy.
Lets put this in context.
I have,in the past worked with quite a few vets.
2nd world war,Viet Nam,grenada,and have friends that have been in the middle east.

The WW2 vets were,for the most part,still OK.Wouldn't hesitate to kill ya,if you needed it.
Not much drugs involved

Viet Nam vets? WAY phuck ered up. Drugs before,during,and after the war.Some would go off if you looked at them wrong
My old boss would go to a bar and beat the poopoo out of everyone in the bar,till a little guy stuck a knife in the back of his head.
Some still have problems from years of drugs and the shame of killing women and children.
Yes it was more common than you would like to believe

My good buddy was in the Green Zone for a year.He jokes about taking drugs for the safety of society.
I really don't doubt him.

A few years ago,a Nat,Guard soldier was screwed on his pay. He went to the bank when he got back and put a gun to the teller's head.
Luckily,the bank manager had a set of Bull balls and stepped in the way.She then calmed the guy down and they took him down outside.

WE sent these guys over to kill people.Most humans don't deal with killing humans well.
Some need a lot of help to deal with killing other people.

Where did this guy stand?

Not putting blame on anyone.
Just showing that just because he was a vet,doesn't mean he wasn't a threat.

I don't see every loss of life as a tragedy.
This seems to be.

 

[dmancornell]

But we are in disagreement to the root cause of the "us vs. them" gap and I know several LEOs that agree with me so IMO I'm not far off base.

More proof of the "us vs them" mentality. Every holiday season the cops would strap on the kevlar and machine guns and look like they going off to battle in Afghanistan, but instead, they parade around the airports and train stations.

Who are they trying to scare? The "terrorists"?

They are there to intimidate the civilians and impress the almighty power of the state. I wonder how these cops sleep at night, knowing they work for the government murder theft machine but mentally twisting that into some kind of honorable profession. Cognitive dissonance or moral vacuum? Probably both.

 

[JohnWayne]

More proof of the "us vs them" mentality. Every holiday season the cops would strap on the kevlar and machine guns and look like they going off to battle in Afghanistan, but instead, they parade around the airports and train stations.

Who are they trying to scare? The "terrorists"?

They are there to intimidate the civilians and impress the almighty power of the state. I wonder how these cops sleep at night, knowing they work for the government murder theft machine but mentally twisting that into some kind of honorable profession. Cognitive dissonance or moral vacuum? Probably both.

Where is your tin foil right now? So, what do you do for a living? Please tell me no sheriff gave you a CCW?

 

[dmancornell]

Where is your tin foil right now? So, what do you do for a living? Please tell me no sheriff gave you a CCW?

Instead of giving a totally meaningless response, can you give one reasonable explanation for the cops power tripping with their gear during the holiday season? I have to add that the cops usually purchase said gear with illegally stolen "civil forfeiture" money.

By the way, the very fact that some cop needs to sign for my CCL is a gross violation of the 2nd amendment, and another demonstration of state oppression.

 

[4Freedom]

Is this Deja vu or did we just have a reverse thread, Veteran kills Officer, last week?

The door swings both ways I guess.

 

[torpedoman]

If you ever have to shoot someone, regardless if they are raping someone, robbing or stabbing you or someone else you can bet all their friends and family will tell anyone who will listen what a choirboy who never missed church or a chance to help anyone who needed it and was exceedingly kind to dumb animals they were.

 

[ridurall]

I've been talking with our local Chief of Police about this case. We spend quite a bit of time while camping with the 4H horse club and he and my wife are Co Presidents because we never know when he might be called away during a rodeo or camp out to deal with a case. He is lots of fun to camp with as he has good stupid crook stories. The reason I brought this to his attention was to make sure that it didn't happen here. He has incorporated it into the training of the 911 operators and his officers. I just wanted to make sure that this type of incident didn't happen here. This is one Mell off a hess no matter what happened Altus, here in SW Oklahoma is full of people with carry permits. It kind of spooks me that just the idea that there is a 911 could get folks so worked up. I was talking with our pastor of our First Baptist Church the other day. He has a permit. Our Music Director also has a permit, and I got him his Crossbreed holster. Our church has a bunch of guys carrying at any point in time. The only thing we worry about is if a bad guy starts something that we recognize each other if we have to draw our guns. In discussing that with our preacher we think we would notice a bad guy standing out.

Also all the officers I've spoken with do not seem to have a problem with Concealed Carry. I never leave my house without my Kimber .45. I just don't know where I'm going to end up. The other day I had a job in the nasty section of town killing a million roaches in a house with 9 people living in it. No one had a job but they had a great big flat screen TV. I felt more comfortable having the gun on my side there. There sure is a big difference in the "poor" in America and the poor in the rest of the world.

Ron

 

[rsmccsman]

I was talking with our pastor of our First Baptist Church the other day. He has a permit. Our Music Director also has a permit, and I got him his Crossbreed holster. Our church has a bunch of guys carrying at any point in time. The only thing we worry about is if a bad guy starts something that we recognize each other if we have to draw our guns. In discussing that with our preacher we think we would notice a bad guy standing out.


You should organize a security team at your church. We have one at ours that I am a part of and many of the churches in our area have also moved in this direction and now have armed security carrying concealed so as to not freak out the little old ladies. Attacks and violence against churches have increased and we are often seen as soft targets. There is a local police detective that does trainings and has made this his ministry. PM me if you are interested in more information and I'll get you in touch with him.

 

[JohnWayne]

Instead of giving a totally meaningless response, can you give one reasonable explanation for the cops power tripping with their gear during the holiday season? I have to add that the cops usually purchase said gear with illegally stolen "civil forfeiture" money.

By the way, the very fact that some cop needs to sign for my CCL is a gross violation of the 2nd amendment, and another demonstration of state oppression.

What "power tripping" with their gear?

Show me where a legit source shows the illegal purchase of "said gear." Not just your nut ball comments.

If you see the 2nd amendment being violated, why not "revolt" against the "state oppression?"

I stand by my assertion that you are a nut, based on your comments

 

[dmancornell]

What "power tripping" with their gear?

Show me where a legit source shows the illegal purchase of "said gear." Not just your nut ball comments.

If you see the 2nd amendment being violated, why not "revolt" against the "state oppression?"

I stand by my assertion that you are a nut, based on your comments

What power tripping? Learn to read, I stated the cops strut around with their machine guns and body armor around airports and train stations for no reason other than to intimidate "the others", i.e. the civilians. Can you come up with another legitimate reason for them to do such a thing?

Not only is gear being purchased with civil forfeiture funds, sometimes entire departments are funded by that method:

Asset Forfeiture Report | The Institute for Justice
The Forfeiture Racket - Reason Magazine

The law is often unjust (I call it the dictatorship of the legislature) and it's because of sheeple like you there isn't a revolt against the state. Government is exceptionally good at fooling people into supporting them, it's one of the few things it is good at (others include murder and theft).

 

[JohnWayne]

What power tripping? Learn to read, I stated the cops strut around with their machine guns and body armor around airports and train stations for no reason other than to intimidate "the others", i.e. the civilians. Can you come up with another legitimate reason for them to do such a thing?

Not only is gear being purchased with civil forfeiture funds, sometimes entire departments are funded by that method:

Asset Forfeiture Report | The Institute for Justice
The Forfeiture Racket - Reason Magazine

The law is often unjust (I call it the dictatorship of the legislature) and it's because of sheeple like you there isn't a revolt against the state. Government is exceptionally good at fooling people into supporting them, it's one of the few things it is good at (others include murder and theft).

I got what you said, it just doesn't make sense. Let's see... Legitimate reason- you mean safety? Like that? Maybe you haven't seen countries where there also is a terrorism threat. London, Israel, etc. Those guys walk around the body armor and guns.... lol....

See people like you that are quick to blame others for a lack of action for their own inaction re-enforce the nuttiness of their thoughts. The real question which you still fail to answer is- if you believe the world is against you, what are you doing about it? Getting help I hope.