Offer "new to guns" owners to teach them basics please if you come across them in your circle of people

[bbbass]

he is cross eye dominant which is where I ran into a wall as I don't know how to teach that. We were running the beretta SAO for the time. I have a 22/45 which is the same grip angle as the 1911 which is why I brought it to train with. He just wants to be proficient enough that if he has to use it in his house for self defense he can hit accurately in house distances.

Got it.

Firstly, I advise to tell him that it's a journey to get to where he wants. It should be a pleasant journey, but it is going to take some time. NOBODY gains proficiency in SD marksmanship and ability in just a few outings.

Secondly, he needs to get far enough along that he can purchase a handgun that works for him and can start practicing on his own. Or did I miss something there?

Yes, dryfire is his friend. He needs to pull the trigger while watching the sights to the point that he can do it w/o moving the sights off target. Small dots are his friend as targets but an apple or a cup can work too.

Lastly, I lost 90% of my visual acuity in my dominant eye (right eye for me) so I know how to deal with it.
1. Get a patch or put a piece of tape over the non-dominant eye. Can even be clear tape, just need enough to obsure the vision in the eye he shouldn't be sighting with. (right eye for a right handed person)
2. Bring the sights up and line up with the dominant eye. (this involves moving the handgun to either the right or left, as needed depending on which eye is the dominant eye)
3. Get used to sighting with the dominant eye. (practice)
4. There are flip shields or sticky films that can aid in blocking the non-dominant eye. I use one in competition but eventually the muscle memory gets used to bringing the sights up to the correct eye, and the brain adapts to the sight picture, ignoring the info from the non-dominant side. Just the same as it is for those that are not cross dominant.

Can be installed on either side of safety glasses:



This is what I use (to block my right eye, this is pictured covering the left eye but it can be put on either side. They are static cling and are removeable and inexpensive):



During daylight, practice will make shooting HD/SD natural and no artificial aid will be needed.

At night, in a dark room a mounted light/laser combo would probably work well... the handgun should should to the center of the light or where the laser is sighted to. Night sights at a minimum but a mounted light/laser combo is better IMO.

Stick with the 22/45 at 3yds and a small bullseye until he is proficient at shooting from a rest and then standing, then move to longer distance, then move to whatever cal and model he wants to shoot/own.

 

[spookshack]

The teacher can only teach so much.
It is up to the student to listen with an open mind, swallow their pride and do their best to implement the skills being taught to them.

If one does not really want to learn what is being taught, then it's probably best to part ways at that point. I can be very patient with noob's, but I do not suffer fools easily...

 

[bbbass]

he is cross eye dominant which is where I ran into a wall as I don't know how to teach that. We were running the beretta SAO for the time. I have a 22/45 which is the same grip angle as the 1911 which is why I brought it to train with. He just wants to be proficient enough that if he has to use it in his house for self defense he can hit accurately in house distances.

Well this thread died. It would be nice to know how things turn out....

You may think it strange that of all the techniques recommended by trainers and in articles dealing with cross dominance, that covering the non-dominant eye is the one that I recommend. Because when target shooting, the easiest thing to do is cover the dominant eye, or shut it. Thereby letting the non-dominant eye have an easier time of sighting.

The reason I'm suggesting the other way around is because those techniques will not be available or will have downsides in a self defense need to shoot. A self defender really has to have both eyes open, and the shooting has to be instinctual. Trying to train the non-dominant eye to take over is never going to work in an emergency.

 

[wollzy]

Sorry to kind of turn the thread again...

Firstly, I'll be the last person to tell someone else what to do. However, it may be advantageous for us to teach new gun owners, to help our cause in the long run.

When I was waiting in line to buy ammo the other week I was standing next to a guy who was about to check out. He was purchasing his first firearm. I overheard his conversation with the employee and realized that this guy was completely clueless. It sounded like he had never shot a gun in his life, let alone had any sort of safety training be that professional or personal training. He was under the impression that all handguns could only hold about 6 rounds of ammunition. I then heard him ask the clerk "how far does this shoot?". The clerk then explained the range at which it was most accurate and this guy seemed surprised that he wasn't going to be able to easily bullseye targets at 200 yards with a 9mm. I then heard him ask "So do I just point the little thing at the end at what I want to shoot?" (He was referring to the front sights).

Guys like this have me worried that some of these first-time buyers who are clueless are going to accidentally discharge their firearms and hurt themselves or someone else because no one taught them how to operate their firearm safely. Of course, the media will jump all over stuff like that and then we start seeing California and Chicago level gun laws here...or worse. If we teach some of these folks the basics we could maybe avoid that situation and convert someone at the same time. Worst case scenario we teach someone, they don't like it, and there are a bunch of cheap firearms for sale once this blows over and these folks don't want them anymore.

Just my 2 cents on the matter and I'm welcome to opposing opinions.

 

[Mikej]

Sorry to kind of turn the thread again...

Firstly, I'll be the last person to tell someone else what to do. However, it may be advantageous to use to teach new gun owners to help our cause in the long run.

When I was waiting in line to buy ammo the other week I was standing next to a guy who was about to check out. He was purchasing his first firearm. I overheard his conversation with the employee and realized that this guy was completely clueless. It sounded like he had never shot a gun in his life, let alone had any sort of safety training be that professional or personal training. He was under the impression that all handguns could only hold about 6 rounds of ammunition. I then heard him ask the clerk "how far does this shoot?". The clerk then explained the range at which it was most accurate and this guy seemed surprised that he wasn't going to be able to easily bullseye targets at 200 yards with a 9mm. I then heard him ask "So do I just point the little thing at the end at what I want to shoot?" (He was referring to the front sights).

Guys like this have me worried that some of these first-time buyers who are clueless are going to accidentally discharge their firearms and hurt themselves or someone else because no one taught them how to operate their firearm safely. Of course, the media will jump all over stuff like that and then we start seeing California and Chicago level gun laws here...or worse. If we teach some of these folks the basics we could maybe avoid that situation and convert someone at the time. Worst case scenario we teach someone, they don't like it, and there are a bunch of cheap firearms for sale once this blows over and these folks don't want them anymore.

Just my 2 cents on the matter and I'm welcome to opposing opinions.

 

[MannyGlocks]

I'm not responsible for these folks.

It's up to them, not me, to get properly trained.

I'm not their nanny....

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Just for something to consider...

At one time you* did not know anything about firearms.
Then someone showed , taught , spoke , explained , etc , to you* about them....
Perhaps you* read books about them or learned from TV ....
Maybe even you* were taught from an early age or learned while in the Service....

My point here is the that your*perception of firearms is based on your* learning and experiences.
Someone at some point , gave you* the inspiration to learn more and helped you* form your* opinion , perception , knowledge , etc of firearms.

No one is born knowing about guns....we all had to learn about them.
Some learned to like , use and understand them...others well....they learned to think and act differently about firearms.

Who better to teach someone , who is willing to learn about firearms , than a helpful gun owner....?
Would you* rather seen the anti-gun folks "teach" about guns , or the media....?
And yes I understand that the person in question , needs to be willing to learn and open to learn...
As well as being open to a different view point and the idea that others may think differently.

Now I am not saying that all who have a gun are now suddenly a friend to the 2nd Amendment.....
Or that you* need to be their newest best friend...
Nor am I saying that all new gun owners will vote and think the way that you* want them to.
Or that it is your* job , place , duty , etc...to teach , help , befriend , understand , etc...any one , much less a new gun owner...

But I am saying that :
If you* continue to do the same as you* have done in the past , then expect the same results.

No one has won anything , without taking a chance.
Andy

*Note that the words you and your , are not pointed at anyone in particular...they are used in a general sense.

 

[MannyGlocks]

TLDR

 

[bbbass]

TLDR

Manny! You are using acronyms???????????????????????????????? ROFLMAO

 

[MannyGlocks]

I'ma flexible kinda guy...

 

[bbbass]

Guys like this have me worried that some of these first-time buyers who are clueless are going to accidentally discharge their firearms and hurt themselves or someone else because no one taught them how to operate their firearm safely. Of course, the media will jump all over stuff like that and then we start seeing California and Chicago level gun laws here...or worse. If we teach some of these folks the basics we could maybe avoid that situation and convert someone at the same time. Worst case scenario we teach someone, they don't like it, and there are a bunch of cheap firearms for sale once this blows over and these folks don't want them anymore.

You make some good points.

But I wouldn't worry too much. People are, and have always been, around us with guns while being clueless about it. IMO the main diff is that gun accidents are highly publicized today, and people have become consumers of all the drama.

Keep up the good fight. I don't know if we are winning, but thanx to CoV19 we're attriting (sp) the heck out of the opposition lawmakers.

 

[bbbass]

I'ma flexible kinda guy...

I've heard that about you...

 

[MannyGlocks]

Aw, shucks, as I whimsically/slowly toe the dirt in front my saddle oxfords!

 

[bbbass]

Aw, shucks, as I whimsically/slowly toe the dirt in front my saddle oxfords!

You have saddle oxfords???

I'm jealous, I only have Wingtips and Patent Leather for dress shoes.

 

[Member 52301]

I was a Newbie in the late 90's and after buying several NIB guns and shooting on a regular basis - I still had QUESTIONS. I still have questions or a CURIOUS nature about some guns that MAY or may NOT interest me a whole lot NOW too!

Late 90's for me - RF and CF caliber handguns - ALL NIB guns in 9mm, 22lr, 22lr/22wmr, 357Magnum/38Special, 45Long Colt but NOT owning a 44Magnum handgun which was gifted to me later on. (S&W Model 29-2 and 29-3 one owner handguns.) I bought 3 RF rifles back east too.

The first time that I looked at a SPECIFIC Smith and Wesson J FRAME d/a revolver - 3 inch barrel (Model 60 - late 90's or 2000.) in PERSON - I asked the salesman if it held 6 rounds in that specific caliber gun and he told me in that specific model that it only held 5 rounds. They came in 357Magnum and 38Special Plus P models at the time.

S&W and my former gun store marked down the 38Special Plus P ones. S & W were going to only carry 357Magnum models at the time or in the future or offering REBATES - mark downs. I think that they brought BOTH caliber models back now but I am not positive.

I looked up that Model 60 that I saw in person at my former gun store, back east, in my big gun book (GUN DIGEST?) and when I received my S&W brochure/literature in the mail too.

I ended up buying that specific MODEL 60 38Special Plus P d/a revolver too. I did not have to wait for a rebate from S&W and my dealer gave it to me right away with another sale price.

That was the first time that I bought a J FRAME - 3 inch barrel and it only held 5 cartridges. The second J FRAME that I bought held 8 cartridges and it was a Smith and Wesson Model 317 Kit Gun - 3 inch barrel (22lr) circa Late 90's or early 2000.

ALL of the other double and single action handguns that I bought held 6 rounds since I did not get the PLUS model in my S&W Model 686. My Ruger single action revolvers held 6 rounds (RF and CF).

My GLOCK Model 19 obviously was different and so were my S&W models 22A and 41!

So I can sometimes understand WHY some Newbie shooters wonder about how many rounds or cartridges some specific guns HOLD in various BRANDS, sizes, calibers and models even though they did their OWN RESEARCH, bought/shot some guns already and being taught in a class and/or by their military husband or their LE friends.

The 'house gun' that I considered my 'house gun' even though it was my late husband's d/a revolver held 6 rounds of ammunition. I KNEW that not all guns were like that gun but that cartridge limit for THAT GUN was ingrained in my brain.

So I can relate to some things that Newbies ask about as a NEW person to buying their own guns just as I could as a Bride of a few years (Nam era.) when my late husband showed me how to shoot a few rounds, load and unload a gun that I understood, gun safety rules, etc. just as much as I could in my LATE 40's in the late 90's when it came to my own interests in self defense issues.

I bet that I could have told and taught some older and younger good shooters and EXPERIENCED gun folks a lot about swimming, sailing sail boats and power boating that they did not know or participate in because it never interested them that much when it came to swimming - pools, fresh and salt water, boating on the ocean, small and large lakes, rivers, etc. when I was a young lady to my old age too. Vice versa and THEY could have taught me a lot about shooting too!

I do REALIZE that many gun folks of ALL AGES are into swimming, sailing and power boating too. BUT not all of them are and boats and being on and/or IN the water do NOT interest them as a hobby, as a living (Military and fishing industry.) or even buying their own boats alone or with a spouse. ADDED more here.

ALL people have different interests in their lives at various stages in their lives. Age and/or circumstances. My opinion. Your mileage may vary. NO problem.

Added more: I always voted for PRO gun candidates and I was pro the Second Amendment before I bought my OWN guns and got into shooting for SELF DEFENSE reasons too. I was right wing - conservative (OLD fashioned Republican. FISCAL conservative.) and Libertarian in some issues too. I have voted for Republicans and a few Libertarians in my life. I voted for a clerk in my former state/township who was a Democrat but he was the BEST man for the job too.

I think that all kinds of people get into guns and hopefully they will KNOW or LEARN that NOT all candidates endorse or BELIEVE IN the RKBA issue, a sovereign nation, the Constitution and tons more!

Cate

 

[bento4140]

As an outsider looking in, I honestly think there's a bit of a firearm renaissance of sorts going on right now.

Since my wife bought two guns, it's remarkable how many of her friends have gained interest in owning their own weapons. I guess we/our circle of friends would be considered center/slightly left but unfortunately media-driven politics is so black and white here that you get lumped into 'left= want to ban everything' / 'right= redneck gun nuts'.

I feel like people are slowly starting to make up their own minds, hence a perceived influx of 'new' gun owners. I think there's definitely 'renewed interest' gun owners, 'grew up with guns but never bought my own' gun owners, too etc.

Anyway, my point - people are a case by case basis. Listen to people, and decide for yourself who you'd like to be associated with.

 

[MannyGlocks]

bento,

What's constitutes slightly left...?

Anti-gun before, but not now or something else?

Thanks!

P.S. Do you have training in things gun?

If not, are you seeking it?

Thanks again.

 

[bento4140]

Well, when I say "slightly left" I mean in general and across different issues.

The polarising nature of politics means that anyone who believes in something 'left' like a public health system also gets lumped in the 'ban all guns' bin. Even though they may also be 2A supporters.

I'm not really brand new to firearms, so not actively looking for training but I think once the corona dust settles my wife should do a hand gun class. She's very handy with a rifle but I don't think she's as confident with a pistol.

 

[MannyGlocks]

bento,

Ok, cool.

Now for an unasked for tip.

If your wife can shoot iron sights on a rifle, it's the same principle with a pistol i.e., line up the rear sight with the front, press with a slight increase in pressure until it goes boom.

Or, scrap that idea and mount a red dot sight on the pistol.

I did that with my Browning Buckmark.

Put a Vortex Venom on it and man, it's even more a pleasure to shoot.

 

[PaulB47]

"Vote Left?"

Wrong question.

Here's what I came up with (slightly different question, but same answer):
--------------------
That next door neighbor or friend who comes over to borrow a gun because he can't get his hands on one "legally"?

Send him back home. Tell him you will loan it, if he learns and can recite back to you Jeff Cooper's 4 rules without hesitation; and if he and everyone in his household signs a statement promising never to advocate for gun control and never to promote or vote for any politician who does so.

What are such promises worth? Probably not a lot, but it can't hurt. Might even get him to correct his thinking. We are now in what is known as a "teachable moment".