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Off Topic: Pot vs Alcohol from Former Police Chief

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by RallySoob, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    "As 5:00 p.m. rolls around my interior clock starts chiming. I'll have an ice-cold, bone-dry martini, thank you. Jalapeno olives and a twist. If the occasion calls for it (temperatures in the twenties, a hot political debate on the tube) I may substitute two fingers of Kentucky sour mash. Four-twenty? Doesn't resonate. But with April 20 approaching and Waldos of the world gearing up to celebrate their favorite day of the year, it's not a bad time to consider, yet again, the pluses and minuses of alcohol vs. cannabis.

    First, a disclaimer: I am a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, but I don't officially represent the organization in this forum. That said, I can't very well check my affiliation, or beliefs, at the keyboard when I sit down to blog for HuffPost. We at LEAP are current and former cops and other criminal justice practitioners who have witnessed firsthand the futility and manifold injustices of the drug war. Our professional experiences have led us to conclude that the more dangerous an illicit substance--from crack to krank--the greater the justification for its legalization, regulation, and control. It is the prohibition of drugs that leads inexorably to high rates of death, disease, crime, and addiction.

    Back to booze vs. pot. How do the effects of these two drugs stack up against specific health and public safety factors?

    Alcohol-related traffic accidents claim approximately 14,000 lives each year, down significantly from 20 or 30 years ago (attributed to improved education and enforcement). Figures for THC-related traffic fatalities are elusive, especially since alcohol is almost always present in the blood as well, and since the numbers of "marijuana-only" traffic fatalities are so small. But evidence from studies, including laboratory simulations, feeds the stereotype that those under the influence of canniboids tend to (1) be more aware of their impaired psychomotor skills, and (2) drive well below the speed limit. Those under the influence of alcohol are much more likely to be clueless or defiant about their condition, and to speed up and drive recklessly.

    Hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths occur annually. There has never been a single recorded marijuana OD fatality.

    According to the American Public Health Association, excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading cause of death in this country. APHA pegs the negative economic impact of extreme drinking at $150 billion a year.

    There have been no documented cases of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, nor has pot been scientifically linked to any type of cancer. (Don't trust an advocate's take on this? Try the fair and balanced coverage over at Fox.) Alcohol abuse contributes to a multitude of long-term negative health consequences, notably cirrhosis of the liver and a variety of cancers.

    While a small quantity, taken daily, is being touted for its salutary health effects, alcohol is one of the worst drugs one can take for pain management, marijuana one of the best.

    Alcohol contributes to acts of violence; marijuana reduces aggression. In approximately three million cases of reported violent crimes last year, the offender had been drinking. This is particularly true in cases of domestic violence, sexual assault, and date rape. Marijuana use, in and of itself, is absent from both crime reports and the scientific literature. There is simply no link to be made.

    Over the past four years I've asked police officers throughout the U.S. (and in Canada) two questions. When's the last time you had to fight someone under the influence of marijuana? (I'm talking marijuana only, not pot plus a six-pack or a fifth of tequila.) My colleagues pause, they reflect. Their eyes widen as they realize that in their five or fifteen or thirty years on the job they have never had to fight a marijuana user. I then ask: When's the last time you had to fight a drunk? They look at their watches.

    All of which begs the question. If one of these two drugs is implicated in dire health effects, high mortality rates, and physical violence--and the other is not--what are we to make of our nation's marijuana laws? Or alcohol laws, for that matter.

    Anybody out there want to launch a campaign for the re-prohibition of alcohol? Didn't think so. The answer, of course, is responsible drinking. Marijuana smokers, for their part, have already shown (apart from that little matter known as the law) greater responsibility in their choice of drugs than those of us who choose alcohol."

    ***Happy 420*** :shy:
  2. Bark

    Bark Oregon Member

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    I could not agree more, legalize it, tax it and empty the prison's of people convicted of possession. I for one am tired of paying tax dollars to keep these people locked.

    Possibly the biggest benefit would come from depriving the drug cartels of their pot profits. We could use the money for treatment of people addicted to alcohol and other problem drugs.

    I personally don't use any drugs or alcohol......life is to short to waste it getting loaded.
  3. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    Wisdom of Spicoli

  4. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    and... Abbie Hoffman
    Abraham Lincoln. On a Hohner box cover but disputed.
    Al Gore.
    Aldous Huxley
    Aleister Crowley
    Alexander Dumas
    Alice B. Toklas
    Allen Ginsberg. Poet.
    Alexis Korner. Musician.
    Andy Warhol. Artist.
    Annita Roddock. Founder 'The Body Shop'.
    Anjelica Huston. Hollywood actress. Jack Nicholson's girlfriend for 17 years. Pro-drug statements by her in Peter McWilliams book, 'Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country'.
    Arthur Conan Doyle. Author, creator 'Sherlock Holmes'.
    Aswad. Musicians.
    Bill Clinton.
    Bill Gates. Not confirmed, just very strongly hinted at in the Playboy interview
    Bill Murray Arrested for possession
    Bob Denver.
    Bob Dylan. Poet, singer, song writer.
    Bob Marley. Poet, singer, song writer.
    The Bishop of Monmouth.
    Brian Eno. Singer, song writer. Signed 'Independent' list.
    Boy George.
    British Lords & MP's - too many to list .
    Buddy Rich.
    Cab Calloway. Jazz musician.
    Carl Sagan. Author.
    Caroline Coon. Artist, founder 'Release', manager of the Clash.
    Carl Segan . Author.
    Carlos Santana. Musician, guitarist.
    Carrie Fischer.
    Cary Grant.
    Cary Mullis. Nobel Laurate, Biology
    Charles Beaudelaire
    Charles Dickens. Claims but no evdience.
    Cheech Marin.
    Chris Armstrong. Footballer, tested positive.
    Chris Conrad.
    Chris Farley. 60's singer.
    Chris Rock.
    Conan O'Brian.
    Count Basie. Jazz legend.
    Dame Ruth Runsiman. Author; Police Federation Report (March 2000) advising liberlization.
    Dave Gilmour . Musician ; Pink Floyd.
    Dave 'Tinki Winky' Thompson - TV personality (UK); the Tellie Tubbie that was sacked.
    Diego Rivera.
    Dion Fortune.
    Dizzy Gillespie.
    Douglas Adams. Author.
    Dr Francis Crick. Nobel Prize winner.
    Dr Lester Grinspoon.
    Dr Mark Porter. TV doctor who says cannabis is not more harmful than alcohol.
    Dr Anne Biezanek (authoress)
    Dr R.D.Laing.
    Dr John Marks
    Dr W.B. O'Shaugnessy.
    Drew Barrymore.
    Duke Ellington.
    Eddie Ellison. Ex head of Scotland Yard Drug Squad.
    Edgar Allen Poe. Author, multi-drug user.
    Elvis Presley. Singer, FBI informer.
    Emperor Liu Chi-nu.
    Emperor Shen-Nung.
    Ernest Hemmingway. Author.
    Errol Flynn.
    Fela Kuti. Musician. Afro/jazz king.
    Felix Dennis. Publisher.
    Fitz Hugh Ludlow.
    Fran Healey. Musician; Travis.
    Francis Ford Coppella.
    Francis Rabelais.
    Francis Wilkinson. Ex Chief Constable of Gwent Police.
    Fredreich Nietzshe.
    Ganesh - Hindu God.
    Gary Johnson.
    Gene Krupa.
    George Clinton. Ex President's brother.
    George W Bush. Possibly the greatest living hypocrite.
    George Gurdjieff.
    George Melly. Jazz musician (early sponsor of Legalise Cannabis Campaign, Uk).
    George Michael. Singer.
    George Washington.
    George Soros.
    Gerard de Nerval.
    Gilberto Gil. Brazilian musical icon.
    The Greatful Dead.
    Hasan I-Sabah.
    Heinrich Khunrath.
    Helen Petrova Blavatsky.
    Henri Michaux.
    Herman Hesse.
    Hiero the Second.
    Howard Marks. Author, cannabis smuggller.
    Howard Stern, Admitted it on the radio.
    Hua T'o.
    Hunter S. Thompson. Smoked weed and snorted coke with George Bush.
    Ian Botham. Convicted Cricket legend.
    Irvine Welsh.
    Kurt Cobain.
    Jabir Ibn el-Hayyan.
    Jack Herer. Author 'The Emporor Wears No Cloths'
    Jack Kerouac. Author ' On the Road'.
    Jack Nicholson. Film actor.
    Jackie Gleason.
    Jackson Pollock.
    Jane Fonda. Actress.
    James Brown. Singer, song writer.
    Janis Joplin. Singer, song writer.
    Jesse 0Ventura.
    Jerry Lee Lewis. Musician, song writer.
    Jimmy Dorsey.
    Jimmy Hendrix. Rock guitarist, singe, song writer
    Jim Morrison. Musician, songwriter; The Doors.
    Joan of Arc. Accused of using 'witch herbs' (another name for cannabis).
    Joan Rivers.
    Joe Strummer. Musician, singer, songer writer; The Clash.
    John Belushi.
    John Denver.
    John F Kennedy. Popular US president (assassinated).
    John Keats. Poet.
    John Lennon. Musician, song writer; The Beatles.
    John Le Mesurier. Tried it but said it's not for him.
    Johnny Cash.
    John Peel. DJ, BBC broadcaster.
    John Sinclair.
    Judge John L. Kane. Chief Judge from the US District Court
    Julie Christie. Actress.
    Jules Verne.
    John Wayne. 'I tried it once but it didn't do anything to me.'
    Kelsey Grammar.
    Ken Livingston. Mayor of London - supports decriminalisation but does not smoke or support the use of recreational drugs.
    Kirk Douglas. Actor.
    Kurt Cobain.
    Larry Adler. Harmonica player and
    friend of George Gershwin. May have written a song about it.
    Lenny Bruce. Comedian.
    Lewis Carroll. Author 'Alice in Wonderland'.
    Linda St Clair
    Little Richard. Musician.
    Lord Avebury.
    Lord Byron. Poet.
    Lord Deedes.
    Lord Tony Gifford. QC, civil rights lawyer.
    Louis Armstrong. 'Oh what a wonderful world'.
    Louis Hebert.
    Mark Thomas . Comedian.
    Marlon Brando. Actor.
    Martin Sheen.
    Mary Shelly. Author 'Frankinstein'.
    Mary Tyler Moore.
    Mick Jagger. Singer, song writer, The Rolling Stones.
    Michael Mansfield QC. Lawyer.
    Jade Jagger.
    JC 100. Fastest rapper in the west.
    JT Moore. Legendary white rasta guitarist.
    Mike Tyson.
    Miles Davis. Jazz/rock drummer.
    Mo Mowlan. Genuine honest politician.
    Modigliani. Sculptor.
    Montgomery Clift. Mentioned in his biography.
    Neil Diamond.
    Nick Hornby. Author.
    Niel Young. Musician.
    Norman Mailer. Author.
    Oasis. Rock band.
    Oliver Stone.
    Oscar Wilde. Poet.
    Pablo Picasso. Artist.
    Pancho Villa. Mexican bandit revolutionary.
    Paul Flynn. Uk Member of Parliament.
    Paul McCartney. Musician, song writer; The Beatles.
    Paul Simon. Musician, song writer.
    Pharoahs of Egypt. Traces in body samples.
    Phil Donohue.
    Phil Tufnell. Former test cricketer, now media celeb.
    Peter Fonda. Actor; 'Easy Rider'.
    Peter Sellers. Actor, comedian.
    Peter Tosh. Musician.
    Philip K. Dick. Science fiction author.
    Pierre Burton.
    Pierre Elliot Trudeau.
    Pink Floyd; Syd Barret and Roger Waters.
    Prince Charles. Heir to the Throne. Quoted while visiting a hospital; 'I understand cannabis is good for medical use' .
    Prince William.
    Prince Harry.
    Queen Arnegunde.
    Queen Victoria. Used it for medical purposes.
    Ram Dass.
    Ray Charles. Musician.
    Rev Kenneth Leech.
    Richard Branson. 'Virgin'. Entreprenur.
    Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize Laureate physicist, founder of quantum electrodynamics.
    Richard Prior.
    Richard Wilson. Actor; 'One Foot in the Grave'.
    Rimbaud. Author.
    Robert Burns. Mentioned it in a poem.
    Robert 'King' Carter. Grower.
    Robert Anton Wilson. Author.
    Robert Mitchum. Jailed 90 days for possession of marijuana, 1949.
    Roger McGough. 60's liverpool poet.
    Rolling Stones. Rock band.
    Ronnie Scot. Jazz club owner, musician, busted on stage 1958, at his club in Soho, London.
    S Club 7. 'Super clean' pop band, busted in Soho, very embarrassing.
    Salvador Dali. Artist.
    Samuel Beckett.
    Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Poet.
    Shen Nung. One of the fathers of Chinese medicine. 2700 B.C .
    Sinead O'Connor. Singer.
    Sigmun Freud. Shrink.
    Sonny Bono.
    Super Furry Animals. Welsh band who wrote a song about Howard Marks.
    Stephen King.
    Sting/Gordon Sumners.
    Tariq Ali. Activist Writer.
    Tenessee Williams. Author.
    Terence McKenna. Author.
    Terry Gilliam. Actor, comedian;Monty Python.
    The Who. Rock band.
    Thelonius Monk.
    Thomas Jefferson.
    Timothy Leary.
    Tom Lehrer.
    Top Tories. Senior members of the shadow cabinet.
    Tony Elliot. Publisher, 'Time Out.
    Tracy Blevins. Artist.
    Tuppy Gore.
    UB40. Band.
    Victor Hugo.
    Vincent Van Gogh. Artist.
    Walt Disney. Cartoonist.
    Walter Benjamin.
    Whitney Houstonn. Busted at Hawaii airport but ran away.
    William Burroughs. Author, poet, artist.
    Will Self. Author. Did smack on Blairs plane.
    William Shakespeare. Playwright.
    William Straw. UK Home Sec Jack Straw's son. Cautioned for supplying undercover journalists in pub 'shocker'.
    Willie Nelson.
    Winston Churchill. British Prime Minister, poet, artist & multi drug user.
    Woody Harrelson. Actor. Features in a book on growing medical marijuana .
    Zoroaster. Persian prophet.

    REF: http://www.schmoo.co.uk/cannabis/comeout.htm
  5. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    Dude did you read who is on the that list?

    :huh:with the exception of maybe a dozen of the above thats a pretty sorry list of supporters pass the bong boy george ,
  6. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    What an idiot, that cop called Alcohol a drug, doesn't he know its a poison?

    J/K. I hate that we don't legalize it and make money from this multi billion dollar safe industry.
  7. mphillip

    mphillip lebanon,Oregon Member

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    I am all for legalization think of the revenue it could create

    -Jobs for growers and dealers who otherwise dont pay taxes will have too.
    -Not to mention the increase in grocery sales and fast food sales(J/K)
    -thousands of new jobs= more people to tax
    -Freeing up time for law enforcment to focus on real drug threats(meth,ect..)
    -if they tax pot like they do cigs Big Bucks!

    plus many other positives
  8. pirateer2007

    pirateer2007 Spokane Wa Member

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    Curt Kobain x 2, I didn't realize he was so into pot! :wow:
  9. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    There are alot of people out there who believe that pot is a gateway drug. There is alot of evidence out there to prove that. I think making pot legal is a very fuzzy line, with serious implications. It is my belief that making pot legal is taking a step in the wrong direction. We know that drugs at the very least do not help in making people more productive members of society. We also know that the softer the law is on pot, the softer our kids will be about it, and maybe other drugs as well.

    Im sorry, I dont care what the hippy population of the US says, pot is a drug, period. And keeping it illegal is one of the things we can do to teach the new generation of kids who are willing to listen that it will not help them to be better people, be more productive, or be any more adjusted. In fact, it will likely do the opposite.
  10. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    right. but since alcohol is legal so should pot be. If you work hard and are a responsible contributing member of society you should be able to relax however you prefer without being bound to social norms of your community. The gateway drug thing was a media fed tactic to keep people uninformed. They used to advertise it would make you go insane back in the 50's. They said it led to murder and all these other crazy things.
  11. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Just because one thing is legal, doesn't always justify legalization of another. Following that logic leads to a domino effect where you might as well just throw out all of the law books.

    We can sit here and debate the legalities and health issues of marijuana or alcohol all day, but this site is not the place for it. This is a firearms forum, meant for the discussion of such related topics. If you want to discuss marijuana, other drugs, or alcohol, feel free to join an appropriate forum and discuss it there.
  12. pirateer2007

    pirateer2007 Spokane Wa Member

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    I in no way condone marijuana, or it's use, but I find that alcohol is a much more destructive drug than pot. That being said, anything taken out of moderation is harmful. Too much oxygen... you die. Too much water... you die. Too much alcohol... you die. You smoke too much weed... you're gonna die hungry. Not how I wanna go :thumbdown:

    Now, here comes the Youth Pastor side of me. Jesus drank alcohol... everyone knows that. There's nothing wrong with having a drink now and again. I have a glass of wine once a week, for the anti-oxidants(office nod). The issue comes when you take it out of moderation. Also if you read Romans 13 (please don't think I'm trying to preach) it says that if you're a believer, then you must submit yourself to the governing authorities. That being said, if they say pot is illegal, then it is wrong to smoke/eat/drink or otherwise ingest pot (my brother's a big stoner and tells me a ton of stuff I have never and will never need to know in regards to weed). If the government ever legalizes pot, then as long as it is taken in moderation I will have no issues with it's use.

    Just my :twocents:
  13. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    No, the gateway drug thing is currently reffering to the use of pot leading to the use of harder drugs like crack, coke, meth, ect.. They may have said back in the 50s that pot would make you go insane, but that has nothing to do with the term gateway drug.

    Pot is a drug. Drugs are illegal. Illegal for a reason, period... IMHO.

    I agree with Physicsguy, though, if you want to discuss a hot button issue like making pot legal, then go join a forum for that and knock yourself out. A firearms forum isnt really the place, even in the off-topic section.
  14. RallySoob

    RallySoob Salem, OR Active Member

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    you guys are funny here about whats ok and not okay to talk about in your off topic section. The control of the off topic section here is almost as bad as CNN's selective strategies. If you can talk about alcohol off topic then you can talk about pot off topic, right? Did you know that alcohol used to be illegal at one point, hello? should people have been restricted to who and how they discussed the prohibition? If you don't agree with a topic and don't have positive or constructive input on the topic shouldn't you just stay out of it?

    and regarding the gateway drug arguement, all I can say is your wrong friend, look it up. Alcohol and cigs are the 1st thing anyone tries, that doesnt mean they are gatway drugs....or does it?

    "Not surprisingly, most users of other illicit drugs have used marijuana first. In fact, most drug users begin with alcohol and nicotine before marijuana—usually before they are of legal age."


    Bottom line is some of you are going to see pot legalized or atleast decriminalized in your life time. It will be an accepted part of our society as it already is in plenty of other countries where it has proven to be useful were alcohol has proven to be destructive. It's only illegal because of tax/drug trade reasons and everyone already recognizes that.

    As far as your preaching Pirate, I'm thinking you are taking that vs out of context. Give to ceasar what is his, give to god what is his. Jesus spoke to masses that were seriously oppressed, dont forget that. The main part of his message is to seek personal relationship with god and getting away from the non-sense rules of their time like how pork was illegal to eat, etc. I believe in god, and I believe he made everything on the earth for what it is. Pot included
  15. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    The off topic section is just for that, for off topic discussion (kids,hobbies,sports,ect). The legalities of pot falls under a legal and political topic, which if not related to firearms is strictly prohibited here.
  16. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    Caffiene is a drug, aspirin is a drug, nicotine is a drug. There's lots of drugs out there that aren't illegal. So one can't just cast a blanket statement that states all drugs need to be illegal. Alcohol has proven itself thru out the centuries to have detrimental effects on people and society, yet it's still legal for sale and consumption. Pot has yet to have 1/1000th of the negative impact that alcohol has yet narrow minded people think it has no medicinal or even recreational value. Pot helped my grand mother survive for over 30 years that without it I have zero doubt that she would of stayed dead after she got out of the hospital after her triple bypass 37 yrs ago.
  17. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Using "illegal drugs" is an incorrect term.

    To clarify things, Marijuana is a Schedule 1 substance under the Controlled Substance Act, which therefore makes it illegal, end of story. You can say all you want, but it is still illegal in this country. If you want to debate its legality or placement as a category 1 substance, by all means, go join a group like NORML and change the law.
  18. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    I will have to call B.S. to the highlighted statement, I smoked weed from late high school and into my 20's and I know for a fact that myself and everyone I ever new or ever met that smoked experimented with other drugs.

    I gave up weed in 1985 but I know that it does less harm than alcohol, my feeling is they should both be treated the same, but if you want it legal be honest about it and your intent. Fact, medical Marijuana is abused by most of the people with a Marijuana card, Fact, most people that grow medical Marijuana sell it illegally on the side, Fact, I could care less if they do either of these things, but don't B.S me that it's not happening because I've witnessed these facts first hand with 100% of the Med Marijuana card holders I've met.
  19. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Did you actually read that statement after you wrote it? :confused: :D
  20. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Yep I did :D
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