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Good site to bone up on "Off the grid" stuff.
http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/06/03/the-absolute-best-batteries-for-off-grid-energy-systems/
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Off-grid cabin...dry run
- Thread Starter SIG383
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Good site to bone up on "Off the grid" stuff.
http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/06/03/the-absolute-best-batteries-for-off-grid-energy-systems/
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Thank you for this site! Good info so far!!
I built a little off grid shed on property I have about an hour outside of Portland. The solar was very easy and I am very happy with the results. I got great help and every thing I needed from Light Haverst Solar in Portland
( <broken link removed> ). Miles is the owner and the person that picks up the phone. Also has good pictures on facebook ( https://www.facebook.com/lhsolar )
( <broken link removed> ). Miles is the owner and the person that picks up the phone. Also has good pictures on facebook ( https://www.facebook.com/lhsolar )
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Google up a "trojan T105" which is the solar/wind recommended version of the classic golfcart battery. I suspect you may be correct though, Trojan is cashing in on the green movement recommendation.
As far as dimensions, configuration and amperage etc, the T105 is identical to a regular GC battery.
As far as dimensions, configuration and amperage etc, the T105 is identical to a regular GC battery.
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So a few things...
Batteries - Lead acid deep cycle flooded batteries are orders of magnitude better than AGM, unless you need your power supply to be portable, however, at that point I would recommend using LiPo or LiFe packs for portable power. They're much lighter, and while more expensive at the moment, prices are coming down. If you are willing to invest the time/spend the coin, Nickel-Iron is the best solution, they have a much lower energy density than either lithium or lead acid, however they are nearly indestructable, and the electrolyte (potassium hydroxide) is much easier to deal with than sulfuric acid in flooded lead cells. There are a few places that sell commercial NiFe cells, but they want arms and legs for them, usually about $10-20/Ah. However they are mechanically quite simple and can be made at home.
Construction - I've seen a lot of the "alternative"/tiny house stuff out there, more often than not it depends heavily on angled cuts. The Conestoga house is a key example of this. All that wood you cut off the corner is waste, it can't be re-used anywhere. The original Conestoga Wagons were that shape because they used metal hoops and oilcloth as covering. Not plywood and metal sheets.
I have built several "sheds" using a relatively simple floor plan. The shed comes out 8x12' (can be made longer) and uses 5 sheets of plywood for the roof (I usually use the "flat roof" mineral tar paper to cover the roof). The floor is 3/4" marine plywood (I strongly recommend a urethane sealer) that sits on a foundation box. The box sits on 4 concrete footers. The footers also act as pillars to hold the roof up. For initial construction, you need to cut 1 sheet of plywood in half (length wise), and then you need to make 2-cuts that make up the Gable ends from one sheet of plywood, the pieces you cut off are used to create the gable on the opposite side.
Adding two more sheets of plywood and some cross members, you can easily create a loft for sleeping in this tiny space. The material you cut out to put in windows can be in-turn used to create shutters. Here is one of the earlier concept drawings for the 8x8 (which I decided was smaller than I liked).
I am working on a set of engineering drawings for this. However main things I looked for:
1) High pitched roof to allow for sleeping/storage loft. Also to keep rain and snow out
2) Fabrication that minimized cutting. Really the only tool required to make this is a circular saw, and if you pre-fabricate it in the shop, only hand tools are needed to assemble it in the field
3) List of tools needed for assembly:
* Ratchets and Open end wrenches for carriage bolts
* Screwdriver (electric is better)
* Staple Gun (for roofing)
* Weed burner (to bond roofing material to the roof, you can do this ahead of time but it makes assembly tricky)
* Caulking gun with a few tubes of liquid nails to bond roof to the gable supports.
You can pre-paint and pre-seal the plywood skin and floors with urethane and/or exterior house paint.
For insulation, I either staple reflectix up on the inside or you can use rigid structural styrifoam panels.
Inside paneling can be done with MDF or other paneling materials. You do need to cut a few inches off to make it all fit. I use 2x2"s on the inside to act as spacers/window/door supports this gives you a good place for putting the foam panels.
The only components that are longer than 8' are the 4 pillars. If you build an 8x12', you need to use 12' 2x6"s for the floor box.
Batteries - Lead acid deep cycle flooded batteries are orders of magnitude better than AGM, unless you need your power supply to be portable, however, at that point I would recommend using LiPo or LiFe packs for portable power. They're much lighter, and while more expensive at the moment, prices are coming down. If you are willing to invest the time/spend the coin, Nickel-Iron is the best solution, they have a much lower energy density than either lithium or lead acid, however they are nearly indestructable, and the electrolyte (potassium hydroxide) is much easier to deal with than sulfuric acid in flooded lead cells. There are a few places that sell commercial NiFe cells, but they want arms and legs for them, usually about $10-20/Ah. However they are mechanically quite simple and can be made at home.
Construction - I've seen a lot of the "alternative"/tiny house stuff out there, more often than not it depends heavily on angled cuts. The Conestoga house is a key example of this. All that wood you cut off the corner is waste, it can't be re-used anywhere. The original Conestoga Wagons were that shape because they used metal hoops and oilcloth as covering. Not plywood and metal sheets.
I have built several "sheds" using a relatively simple floor plan. The shed comes out 8x12' (can be made longer) and uses 5 sheets of plywood for the roof (I usually use the "flat roof" mineral tar paper to cover the roof). The floor is 3/4" marine plywood (I strongly recommend a urethane sealer) that sits on a foundation box. The box sits on 4 concrete footers. The footers also act as pillars to hold the roof up. For initial construction, you need to cut 1 sheet of plywood in half (length wise), and then you need to make 2-cuts that make up the Gable ends from one sheet of plywood, the pieces you cut off are used to create the gable on the opposite side.
Adding two more sheets of plywood and some cross members, you can easily create a loft for sleeping in this tiny space. The material you cut out to put in windows can be in-turn used to create shutters. Here is one of the earlier concept drawings for the 8x8 (which I decided was smaller than I liked).
I am working on a set of engineering drawings for this. However main things I looked for:
1) High pitched roof to allow for sleeping/storage loft. Also to keep rain and snow out
2) Fabrication that minimized cutting. Really the only tool required to make this is a circular saw, and if you pre-fabricate it in the shop, only hand tools are needed to assemble it in the field
3) List of tools needed for assembly:
* Ratchets and Open end wrenches for carriage bolts
* Screwdriver (electric is better)
* Staple Gun (for roofing)
* Weed burner (to bond roofing material to the roof, you can do this ahead of time but it makes assembly tricky)
* Caulking gun with a few tubes of liquid nails to bond roof to the gable supports.
You can pre-paint and pre-seal the plywood skin and floors with urethane and/or exterior house paint.
For insulation, I either staple reflectix up on the inside or you can use rigid structural styrifoam panels.
Inside paneling can be done with MDF or other paneling materials. You do need to cut a few inches off to make it all fit. I use 2x2"s on the inside to act as spacers/window/door supports this gives you a good place for putting the foam panels.
The only components that are longer than 8' are the 4 pillars. If you build an 8x12', you need to use 12' 2x6"s for the floor box.
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Heavy equipment ,big stuff,use 6v batteries instead of smaller 12v batteries
It sounds like you're going about it the right way.
A while back my wife and I purchased some recreational property and built ourselves a "shed." We had a good idea of what we wanted/needed and I drew the plans accordingly. Over the years we've made little refinements and overall we've absolutely enjoyed it.
We spend between 10-20% of each year there. The longest stretch was two weeks. We've been there when it was -3*F and when it was 104*F.
Due to its size we did have to get construction permits. If I had it to do over I might change that by building something on a trailer or skids just because it irks me a bit to not only have to pay a small ransom for the permits, I get to pay tribute annually in the form of taxes...
A few tips:
-Insulation is good. Not only does it save fuel/energy and time in Winter, it keeps the place cooler in summer. Well screened ventilation makes it a lot more comfortable in warm weather too.
-Critters can be a nuisance. We elevated our floor and did NOT enclose the space below it (skirting). This greatly mitigates the issues with mice. Our friends and neighbors who have enclosed theirs are in a constant battle with mice. So far (six years) we haven't even had to set a mousetrap (knock on wood...).
The most damage we've had done to the cabin was by woodpeckers (Flickers). In early spring I put up some flashy wind streamers and so far that has kept them from coming back.
-Water is a big limitation. A reliable local source is HIGHLY desirable.
-Electricity is the easiest utility to do without. Our need for it are very limited and we can actually get by with just an inverter and our car (solar1234.com has a lot of good information on it). We may eventually invest in some solar power generation, especially if it can be made portable.
-The covered porch is very useful. It makes a good bad weather working space, dry temporary storage and a place to watch nature walk by.
-The loft (over the porch) is nice for overflow gear but the older I get, the less I like climbing up there to sleep.
-Those apartment sized propane ranges are great if you like to cook. Get the correct regulator for it and screw it into a easily transportable bulk tank and you're golden.
Once you decide what it is you need the building to do, the rest falls into place.
A while back my wife and I purchased some recreational property and built ourselves a "shed." We had a good idea of what we wanted/needed and I drew the plans accordingly. Over the years we've made little refinements and overall we've absolutely enjoyed it.
We spend between 10-20% of each year there. The longest stretch was two weeks. We've been there when it was -3*F and when it was 104*F.
Due to its size we did have to get construction permits. If I had it to do over I might change that by building something on a trailer or skids just because it irks me a bit to not only have to pay a small ransom for the permits, I get to pay tribute annually in the form of taxes...
A few tips:
-Insulation is good. Not only does it save fuel/energy and time in Winter, it keeps the place cooler in summer. Well screened ventilation makes it a lot more comfortable in warm weather too.
-Critters can be a nuisance. We elevated our floor and did NOT enclose the space below it (skirting). This greatly mitigates the issues with mice. Our friends and neighbors who have enclosed theirs are in a constant battle with mice. So far (six years) we haven't even had to set a mousetrap (knock on wood...).
The most damage we've had done to the cabin was by woodpeckers (Flickers). In early spring I put up some flashy wind streamers and so far that has kept them from coming back.
-Water is a big limitation. A reliable local source is HIGHLY desirable.
-Electricity is the easiest utility to do without. Our need for it are very limited and we can actually get by with just an inverter and our car (solar1234.com has a lot of good information on it). We may eventually invest in some solar power generation, especially if it can be made portable.
-The covered porch is very useful. It makes a good bad weather working space, dry temporary storage and a place to watch nature walk by.
-The loft (over the porch) is nice for overflow gear but the older I get, the less I like climbing up there to sleep.
-Those apartment sized propane ranges are great if you like to cook. Get the correct regulator for it and screw it into a easily transportable bulk tank and you're golden.
Once you decide what it is you need the building to do, the rest falls into place.
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all great stuff, but I prefer placing 2 shipping containers parallel about 16 feet apart, building a gable roof across the two with several feet overhang on either side. one can easily collect rain water into a storage tank from the roof which gravity feeds a hot water tank, waters a garden, flushes toilets, washes dishes. The containers should be insulated, made into a home (google shipping container homes).
Consider an awning (in this case, a second roof built over your roof, with free air space in between) if the building will be out in the sun. Maybe you've seen tents pitched under tarps stretched high enough for people to walk under. It greatly improves quality of life without power or with minimal power. 36 inches of open air space is enough for heat radiating out from the underside of the awning to dissipate before reaching the structure's roof. A friend and I did this to a shed in Tucson and dropped the interior temperature by more than 30 degrees. That awning could be used to mount your solar panels. Solar panels work better when they're cool, so you could use them as the face of a solar hot water collector plate and harvest heat and electricity from the same rays. That hot water, stored in a superinsulated tank, can be used for domestic hot water or for radiant heat via floor piping with a low wattage pump.
Tempering valves make solar hot water viable, so you don't scald yourself. Also handy if you put a barrel jacket around your stovepipe as a supplementary water heater. It is a great place for a heat exchanger. A big hoop of copper pipe in a ring around the stovepipe near the ceiling serves as a clothes hanging rod so you can dry out clothes when the fire is going.
If code limits the average height of your roof, a single slope gives you the most usable space. If snow load is a problem, a A frame roof with a pitch of at least 55 degrees will shrug the snow off.
Old books on passive solar are still just as viable now as when they were written, and good design will keep you more comfortable at any time of the year, in any climate, than design that isn't considerate of basic solar principles. We spend massive amounts of energy regulating building temperatures (more than fueling vehicles) so HVAC is pretty important. Comfort is often a pretty good indicator of how successfully we are surviving.
Have fun with your project!
Tempering valves make solar hot water viable, so you don't scald yourself. Also handy if you put a barrel jacket around your stovepipe as a supplementary water heater. It is a great place for a heat exchanger. A big hoop of copper pipe in a ring around the stovepipe near the ceiling serves as a clothes hanging rod so you can dry out clothes when the fire is going.
If code limits the average height of your roof, a single slope gives you the most usable space. If snow load is a problem, a A frame roof with a pitch of at least 55 degrees will shrug the snow off.
Old books on passive solar are still just as viable now as when they were written, and good design will keep you more comfortable at any time of the year, in any climate, than design that isn't considerate of basic solar principles. We spend massive amounts of energy regulating building temperatures (more than fueling vehicles) so HVAC is pretty important. Comfort is often a pretty good indicator of how successfully we are surviving.
Have fun with your project!
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From the codebook:
"...footprint to not exceed 200 sq/ft...no more than 12 ft high from ground to midpoint between eave and peak of roof."
I've found a lot of info with the tiny houses stuff. I was thinking a container but the codebook specifically states a permit is required to put a container on property, regardless of size. Plus, it would be quite the challenge to get a container into my backyard with how they yard and gates are set up. Once we have property, we're thinking of doing a container for at least storage. We also discussed turning one into a cellar of sorts and burrying it or at least putting it into the side of a hill. That though, is many years away!!
I'd really like to be able to find some old lumber that I can reuse to keep the costs down as much as possible. only problem is FINDING it. I've found some reclaimed stuff but it costs more than new so that defeats the purpose there.
"...footprint to not exceed 200 sq/ft...no more than 12 ft high from ground to midpoint between eave and peak of roof."
I've found a lot of info with the tiny houses stuff. I was thinking a container but the codebook specifically states a permit is required to put a container on property, regardless of size. Plus, it would be quite the challenge to get a container into my backyard with how they yard and gates are set up. Once we have property, we're thinking of doing a container for at least storage. We also discussed turning one into a cellar of sorts and burrying it or at least putting it into the side of a hill. That though, is many years away!!
I'd really like to be able to find some old lumber that I can reuse to keep the costs down as much as possible. only problem is FINDING it. I've found some reclaimed stuff but it costs more than new so that defeats the purpose there.
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Yes, I found that same thing when I was doing our house last year. Anything reclaimed (green) was more money. Cheaper to buy new. Better IMO anyways.
I often see adds to "come and take it down" on CL and what not, for an old shed, or barn someone just wants off their property. A lot of work, but free +labor is usually cheaper.
I often see adds to "come and take it down" on CL and what not, for an old shed, or barn someone just wants off their property. A lot of work, but free +labor is usually cheaper.
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I'm thinking I'll be looking for ads like that when I get home in December. Sawzall should make quick work of alot of that...
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