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Off duty Lt. attacked at MAX platform: Would it have been justified?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by baalzebubba, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. baalzebubba

    baalzebubba Vancouver, WA Member

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    I just read this on the RSS locally. It appears that the Lt. and his wife were on their way home from the airport or I would have thought he'd likely be carrying.

    Would he have been justified to pull a weapon when he's being beaten by two people?

    link

    "CLACKAMAS, Ore. – A relaxing vacation for a longtime Clackamas County Sheriff's Office Lieutenant Paul Steigleder and his wife Debbie, a Portland police sergeant, came to an abrupt halt Monday afternoon as they rode the red line of the MAX from Portland International Airport to their ultimate destination at the Clackamas Town Center.

    While making the change from the airport – with their luggage – from the red line to the green line at Gateway to gain access to the Clackamas Town Center, the couple said they saw two males drinking alcohol and smoking on the Gateway Station TriMet platform.

    According to a press release distributed by the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office, Paul Steigleder "gingerly" approached the two men and "merely" told the duo that smoking and alcohol consumption while on the line was not appropriate. They said one of the two males was agreeable and appeared to comply with this request to obey the rules.

    From there, a press release from the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office provides this information:

    "A TriMet employee came onto the scene and confronted the two men when Paul Steigleder then observed the two men being uncooperative with the TriMet employee. So, in an effort to help the lone TriMet employee, he intervened by announcing, while presenting his police officer credentials, that he is a Clackamas County Sheriff's Office Lieutenant and the two men should cooperate with the TriMet employee. This intervention and announcement seemed to have quelled the ongoing situation as Paul Steigleder and his wife left by jumping onto the arriving green line bound for the Clackamas Town Center.

    "Unbeknownst to the Steigleder couple at the time, the two men departed Gateway on the same train; only in a different car and were not seen by the Steigleders.

    "Upon arriving at the Clackamas Town Center, the Steigleders exited the train and began walking from the train platform – dressed in sandals with their luggage in tow – to the Clackamas Town Center parking lot to meet with awaiting relatives for a ride to their home."

    According to the press release, the couple was walking down the ramp into the parking lot of the Clackamas Town Center when Paul Steigleder heard someone behind him saying something. The officer contends he heard one of the two men he witnessed earlier yelling, "There he is. The Lieutenant. He's all on his own now!"

    The report is that the two men "rapidly" approached Paul Steigleder and began kicking and punching him. The press release alleges that while Paul Steigleder was attempting to gain control of this suspect, and defend himself, several witnesses in the area also attempted to come to his aid.

    At 3:21 p.m., Debbie Steigleder, who has been recovering from recent neck surgery, called 9-1-1 for help. The report says she then began helping to "physically defend her husband" in the parking lot.

    It wasn't until then that the press release says the two men finally stopped assaulting Paul Steigleder and ran into the nearest available Clackamas Town Center department store.

    The Steigleders, not down and out, followed the two men as Clackamas County Sheriff's Office Patrol Deputies arrived in the area in response to the 9-1-1 call.

    "After a brief search in the store by police, coupled with the assistance of an alert witness," the press release contends, "one of the suspects was arrested while trying to hide behind a clothing display. The second suspect was taken into custody while navigating through a shopping aisle of the same department store.

    "A search of the suspects and belongings revealed evidence of what is believed to be marijuana, beer and a suspicious white powdery substance. All these items have been retained as evidence."

    No serious physical injuries were reported as a result of this alleged assault, but investigators now say they believe at least one of the suspects in this assault was armed with a rock.

    The two apprehended suspects were then transported to the Clackamas County Jail and lodged with the related criminal charges. The two suspects are identified as:

    Troix Alexander Chandler, 23, a transient. He is charged with the following crimes and bail is set at $79,500:

    * Third-degree assault
    * Assaulting a public safety officer
    * Second-degree disorderly conduct
    * Interfering with public transportation
    * Harassment

    Jonathan James Andrews, 22, with a Southeast Stark Street address in Portland. He is charged with the following crimes and has a bail set at $91,000:

    * Third-degree assault
    * Assaulting a public safety officer
    * Second-degree disorderly conduct
    * Failure to register as a sex offender
    * Interfering with public transportation
    "
     
  2. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    My wife is diabetic, with kidney issues and blind in one eye. She cant fight and she cant run. If I'm with her and two guys attack us, I would not hesitate to draw my weapon and use it, regardless of how they were armed. Two against one is a disparity of force that I cannot overcome with my bare hands, especially when my wife is totally dependent on me to protect her.
     
  3. Reco

    Reco Portland Oregon Active Member

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    no one ever said Criminals were smart.... wow potencial 1 year in jail for being idiots.

    Reco
     
  4. wence5

    wence5 Vancouver, Washington, United States Active Member

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    Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid.
     
  5. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    The officer made a whole list of CYA mistakes. I can tell he didn't grow up in the ghetto like I did. ;)
     
  6. Demasoni

    Demasoni Eugene, Oregon Member

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    In the point of pulling my own weapon to save the officers life, yes I would. But in the course of shooting them probability not unless they came after me.
     
  7. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    BUMP

    He made himself a target then went back to "White" alertness when he hopped on the train. He should have stayed in "Red" or not got involved unless the situation with the train employee got violent. Him not knowing where the two subjects went after he confronted them proves this...

    My 2-cents
     
  8. simpleguy

    simpleguy Clackamas Active Member

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    He may have made a bunch of CYA mistakes, but these punks were doing something illegal when this whole series of events started. It shouldn't matter who points out their behavior and asks them to cease their actions whether a private citizen, off duty officer or transportation police(or whatever you call them), the sad thing is, a bunch of citizens should have jumped in and helped beat these kids' a$$e$.

    The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
     
  9. Carpenter98312

    Carpenter98312 Washington Member

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    I have to say it was the dumb azzes lucky day, If it were me and I had a side arm they both would have been worm food. What the **** is wrong with society. UM let me answer first. A Welfare Government. If people were forced to make a living on this earth I believe we would not have such a bubblegumie society. If you dont do yourself and society good then you die by your own hands.
     
  10. Carpenter98312

    Carpenter98312 Washington Member

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    COVER YOUR *** cuz nobody else will.
     
  11. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I would have drawn my concealed .45ACP... as a minimum.
     
  12. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    1. Numero uno, he put his family in danger, family comes before police.

    2. He's off duty, let the transit police deal with it unless the officer was in real danger.

    3. He (trimet officer) couldn't be in real danger because the offenders were let go and no backup was called, no one was arrested.

    4. Coming from the airport I would assume the criminal would be smart enough to know you were unarmed.

    5. The trimet police shouldn't have let them on the same train and he (off duty) didn't check to see if they got on the train.

    6. The guy was so oblivious to the facts and his surroundings that he was caught with his pants down.

    7. He rode the max.

    Come on over to my neighborhood (N Portland) I'll be glad to drop you off at anyone of a number of corners where drug dealer hang out and I'll be glad to film you from a distance as you "point out their behavior and ask them to cease their actions" I promise I will call you an ambulance before I go home and post the video on Youtube! ;)

    I recommend you read Sun Tzu's Art of War, there is a time and place, you must pick the battles you can win, brute force or righteousness doesn't guarantee victory.


    According to the article they did at the Town Center Mall.

    That is very simplistic. This situation was not initially out of control, had it been, the transit officer would have called for back up and people would have been arrested, since this was not the case I would have stick with my original assessment.

    Like I said someone that grew up in the hood would have done a better job of CYA.
     
  13. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    ....? What does that have to do with us? Tell that to the moron officer.

    Nobody cares where you grew up. Not all of us grew up in the "ghetto(right...)," and most of us are much more alert than this victim.

    This whole story just pisses me off, how could this officer be so oblivious?
     
  14. sweetbeard

    sweetbeard Beavertown OreGUN! New Member

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    I grew up in north longbeach.... and I won't ride the MAX without 3 guns and 2 knives..

    if you get beatup on the MAX it means you need a better job so you can afford a car..

    protect yourself because no one else will.. especially the cops:laugh:
     
  15. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    It's relevant to the guys statement quoted below. My point is that it is easy to talk tough on the net, reality can be a bit different. ;)



    Is there a new requirement that "you" should care on the net because I didn't get the memo, perhaps you can forward it to me?

    Kind of my point.
     
  16. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

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    Probably the first time I have ever agreed 100% (or even 10%) with Trlsmn. I would just add one other point. The officer was not an Officer, he was a Lieutenant-an administrator. He probably has not done down and dirty police work in years and was not in the correct mindset to be in a situation like that. As a manager, he is probably used to people doing what he says because of who he is. Who knows? When he last squared off with a crminal, saying you were a cop may have been enough to get someone to back down. Times have changed. Thankfully, he and his wife are okay.

    As far as two on one fights go-especially ones where there is no provocation (telling someone you are a cop doesn't count) from the lone party- I think that just about anything goes.
     
  17. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
     
  18. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Stick around! I'll have you campaigning for George Bush III in 20 years! All part of my evil plan.........:p
     
  19. Wheeler44

    Wheeler44 SW Washington Member

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    Yep...and it sounds like everybody won a prize at that carnival...
     
  20. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    What was this guy thinking? That he was going to change something? And he is a LT With Clackamas Co.? He is obviously way out of touch with the the "street environment" of a big city. Heck I see worse than this in Central Oregon and do not bat an eyelash. Sorry but the quoted words in the aforementioned suggest a bizarre display of innocence and a complete lack of "streetwise-ness" that should NOT be a part of being an LT with Clackamas Co. This guy chose the wrong time to overcome certain fears and insecurities.