OFF: Dangerous Legislation! Mental Health Emergency Clause vs. Gun Rights

[etrain16]

I can't see this not getting thrown out in court. It violates so many Constitutional protections it's staggering to me that even a layman could draft it. Realistically though, they drafted it then turned it over to a group of lawyers who are changing words so it does the same thing, but skirts by the law. If it's passed, hopefully we can get a judge who can see through this crap.

I hope you're right. But the big question is, who in Oregon is going to bring the suit? Is anyone ready or prepared to do that? Washington is pretty set with the SAF, as they seem pretty open to jumping on these things. I don't know if anyone in Oregon is interested in going that far here. Any ideas on that?

 

[U8395279]

Very dangerous, just like the restraining order one. What psyco antis dream this crap up!

Are you saying that this woman is nuts?? Does she look like some kind of fanatic to you?

 

[U8395279]

Wow, talk about a witch hunt against gun owners. The bill requires that no proof, no evidence be presented to take your rights away. All it requires is an accusation. And folks, that is tantamount to being a witch hunt. Even protects the accuser from being sued for damages.

On the other hand, in order to get your rights restored, you have to "PROVE BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE" that you are NOT any danger. That you are NOT having any mental health issues.

This is turning our system of justice upside down. You are immediately considered to be guilty, and the burden of proof is all on you to prove that you are NOT!

Proving the non-existence of anything is a logical fallacy. It simply cannot be done.

This is very evil legislation.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/146-proving-non-existence

 

[nammac]

Wow, talk about a witch hunt against gun owners. The bill requires that no proof, no evidence be presented to take your rights away. All it requires is an accusation. And folks, that is tantamount to being a witch hunt. Even protects the accuser from being sued for damages.

On the other hand, in order to get your rights restored, you have to "PROVE BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE" that you are NOT any danger. That you are NOT having any mental health issues.

This is turning our system of justice upside down. You are immediately considered to be guilty, and the burden of proof is all on you to prove that you are NOT!

Proving the non-existence of anything is a logical fallacy. It simply cannot be done.

This is very evil legislation.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/146-proving-non-existence

Yup, it sure is, and it's brought to us by the corrupt Floyd Prozanski, as usual...

 

[U8395279]

Yup, it sure is, and it's brought to us by the corrupt Floyd Prozanski, as usual...

Ah, yes, good old Floyd Prozanski, what a lousy SOB:

 

[41Slinger]

How's about a new bill, Bill # 3825 633, stating that any politician that presents any bill that knowingly is unconstitutional or discriminating in any way against representatives of said Constitution can be challenged free of cost by a simple written statement from any Constitutional representative who feels attacked by said bill. If found guilty of said offense, the offending politician is immediately removed from said position and forfeits all rights and benefits for said time in office and donates $100,000.00 of personal property immediately for failing to uphold said responsibility to the Constitution. This value can and will be adjusted upward depending on how serious the deviation is from the Constitution the offense is deemed and this will be decided by a vote from said directly assaulted individuals of said unconstitutional bill.

Title of this bill is calculated from my phone pad, you'll have to do the math.

 

[U8395279]

So much for her statement, no gun bills this short session.

She sure is working hard to turn Oregon into Northern California. The recently passed a similar bill.

Well, I look at this two ways:

1) The Democrats are most likely in the early stages of drafting some major gun control bills. But they are probably so big and complex, that they felt they would be impractical to pass in this short session this year.

2) So because of the above, they probably looked at what they might be able to pass in a short session. And they then came up with this bill.

After all, no sane person would be against preventing the mentally ill buy guns. This would thus qualify as being what Obama calls "common sense" legislation.

.

 

[RW-Ore]

I have already written to both my senator and representative twice each. Start the e-mails, letters and phone calls "NOW" not later.

 

[rdb241]

Agreed, but that can ONLY happen if pro-gun voters vote pro-gun in November - no excuses. No "my vote doesn't count so I won't vote", no "all of them are corrupt, so I won't vote", no "they're going to win anyway, so I won't vote" and, no voting for anti-gun politicians just because they support social programs. This year will be a critical year for gun owners in Oregon and Washington. Either speak up and vote for pro-gun politicians, or waste your vote and wait for the next round of restrictions on your rights. Sitting back and doing nothing is the same as handing them the pen they'll use to take our rights.

Let's be a little more specific here. On certain federal Items, State Items, County and city Items. Your vote does count. But the only election in this country where your vote, or the popular vote of the people, does not count is the Presidential election. Your and my vote means nothing when a group called "The Electorial College" elects the President. That is not always in line with the popular vote of any certain state.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

...This kind of bubblegum is exactly why we rebelled against England.

Actually it isn't.

The British didn't start in on arms confiscation until 1775 when the Massachusetts Provisional Congress took over the land outside of Boston.

That's when the Brits headed for Concord to scoop up powder and guns.

The original dispute starting in 1764-1774 was over taxes and our subsequent boycotts of English goods; simply put, money the Crown wanted and were not getting.
OK! Now back to the regularly scheduled topic, already in progress.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

This situation brewing is as though Oregon and Washington were in some pi$$ing contest to see who can come up with the most regressive, dangerous laws possible.
I think this Oregon one soundly beats our idiotic Assault-Weapons House Bill.

 

[U8395279]

I think this Oregon one soundly beats our idiotic Assault-Weapons House Bill.

If the Democrats in Salem are willing to do something this extreme in nature this year, then one can only wonder what kind of outrageous bills they will come out with in 2017, once they have been re-elected.

Oregonians will probably face the mother of all Assault Weapons bans in 2017.

.

 

[RLS]

If the Democrats in Salem are willing to do something this extreme in nature this year, then one can only wonder what kind of outrageous bills they will come out with in 2017, once they have been re-elected.

Oregonians will probably face the mother of all Assault Weapons bans in 2017.

.

They have to get re elected first, And it is up to every gun owner to see that the only things getting banned in Salem are all the gun grabbing Democrats. That would be ALL the Democrats that currently occupy Salem as well as a couple of Rinos.

 

[DuneHopper]

Yes and communication needs to be strong ..............anyone hear form OFF yet are they going to do any Protests or help setup or just report?

They have to get re elected first, And it is up to every gun owner to see that the only things getting banned in Salem are all the gun grabbing Democrats. That would be ALL the Democrats that currently occupy Salem as well as a couple of Rinos.

Yep and it going to take work not words to this group and people like OFF, SOPH, OK all need to stop talking so much and start doing.

 

[dude23]

01.12.16


We have received a preliminary copy of one of the most dangerous pieces of anti-gun legislation we have ever seen.

While the concept was first floated by Ginny Burdick, there may be other legislators behind it.

This bill eviscerates due process and turns Oregon into a Soviet style collection of secret snitches.

Basically if someone makes a claim that you are, in their opinion, experiencing a "mental health emergency" you lose your right to buy a firearm!

Included in the list of people who can make that accusation against you are such "mental health experts" as a college art professor, your boss, or an aunt you have not seen in 20 years!

Once the accusation has been made, it's your problem to get your rights restored!

You are not even allowed to know who made the accusation and you are not informed that your rights have been taken away unless you attempt a firearms purchase. You are not allowed to know how long the "hold" on your rights is!

The person who made the accusation is immune from any liability for making the accusation that takes away your rights.

People will be able to make fabricated accusations against you online!

We cannot stress enough how dangerous this proposed bill is.

If the past is any indication, efforts will be made to ram this bill through with as little discussion as possible.

Your rights are in the cross hairs. If this bill becomes law, you are guilty until proven innocent.

Just imagine a woman whose dangerous husband has threatened to kill her. She wants to buy a gun for protection, but a "family member" (maybe the husband?) makes an anonymous accusation, online, that she is experiencing a "mental health emergency" and now her rights are gone! Not only will she be unable to protect herself, she will have to jump through impossible hoops to "prove" she is not mentally ill!

We have run into some downright evil legislation before, but this is beyond anything we have ever seen. Have a doctor who does not like guns? Your rights are gone. Have a boss who's mad at you? Your rights are gone. Have a crazy cousin who thinks no one should have a gun? Your rights are gone.


Of course, this bill has an "emergency clause" to make sure the people of Oregon cannot stop it at the ballot box!

We will have more on this bill if it moves through the legislature, but we wanted you to know that the battle is on even before the session has started. We are going to need all the help we can get for what promises to be a very ugly 2016. Please consider any contribution you can afford to help us reach as many people as possible. Any one of us can become a victim of this kind of outrage. You can help OFF here.

As with most legislation if you aren't familiar with the entire bill, the nuanced issues or the past actions showing motive of those proposing it it seems "common sense".

That being said most Americans (and most groups of people anywhere) don't pay attention to things that effect them if they can't directly see them having an impact. They are too easily whipped into a frenzy over issues that shouldn't have that much impact over rational though, they are driven to a state of fear & a group that is fearful can be convinced of most anything.

That being said, this bill is a prime example of the lies of "gun confiscation is a conspiracy" & we just want to make you safer. This is another paper cut on the body of liberty slowly damaging it until after so many minuscule attacks it slowly dies, after a period of time so drawn out that there is barely a voice of opposition by those who remember what it once stood for.

Just like the NDAA, patriot act, etc. this is so blatantly against our constitution & Bill Of Rights it's insane that a legislator would put forth a bill like this. It has become (quite awhile ago actually, possibly close to 200 years) a fight for individual rights & liberty over the possible security against future crimes & the proclamation that ensuring the public good out ways any one person's rights. Of course this is all a struggle to show that government is the only possible defender against violence & terrorism. A constant crusade to keep any form of self reliance or accountability for actions silenced & deemed as lunacy, a Rambo fantasy, antisocial hillbillies, anti-government, etc.

But the root cause is ignorance & a loss of rational thought. Things could not have gotten this far or this bad with an informed people. The people have been lulled into a daze of distractions & slowly removed the idea of rational debate & healthy skepticism. I fear for the future.

 

[dude23]

Another huge issue with this bill besides it's violating the constitution is the idea that guns are the only possible weapon to be used to cause harm. If a person is mentally unstable enough to be a danger with a gun they are a danger with a knife, a glass bottle, a can of gasoline, a car, etc.

So in reality this does nothing to keep people safe from a possible attack from a person who is mentally ill. Of a person is this unstable they should be getting help in or out of a secure facility, depending on severity & what friends or family they have to help.

This bill is nothing more than a tool enabling petty tyrants become true tyrants by using the government as revenge in personal disputes or as a weapon against political opponents. Absolutely disgusting & soberingly frightening in the reality of a police state being wielded by anyone with a grudge.

I can see the Ad campaign slogan now...
"Not just any police state, it's YOUR Police State! Visit our website to find out how you can wield the enormous power of The People's Jackboot to crush your enemies!"

 

[dude23]

Better plan now and get multible rallys going except someone tell OFF who often helps organize these things no more rallys and to grow a pair and call it a PROTEST. Tired of this passive BS now is not the time. I wont go to one more stand around and listen to speakers rally I will listen to speakers at a Protest !!!!! A armed and peaceful one but none the less a PROTEST!!

I agree with the protests over rallies, but I believe being armed in a situation like that will work against the goal.

1. It will allow the media to play the "antigovernment" & "militia" card, pushing fence sitters & many pro gun Dems to support the bill just for spite.

2. If things get hairy, like it should in order to cause enough disturbance to make them know the issue is serious, it will give a reason for LEO to possibly start shooting (there's always an anti somewhere in LEO & always someone who's undertrained & scared to death of a confrontation where they may be overpowered, it's these types who will use force first). Once that starts it just proves their point that gun owners are all psycho death mongers, (regardless of who fired first) & deserve to have guns taken away.

I wish it was different, but it's not. And if it was we wouldn't be having this discussion anyway.

 

[dude23]

I'm with Dunehopper and nammac. There need to be PROTESTS. Not passive rallies. Multiple ones. Protests outside legislators homes. Protests where we are locked arm in arm, but without aggression, surrounding the capitol....blocking all ways in and out. No more lengthy discussions in here how these lawmakers are dumb....they are not. They are calculating oppressive, evil statists. And no more repeating of this fact is needed. More and more threads in here should contain links to information where the next protest is and when. And what the gun laws are where they are at so we can show up peacefully armed if possible. Protests on weekdays AND weekends....so people of all work schedules can attend. And members here NEED to urge, shame, scare, beg, cajole, and demand your gun owner friends, who aren't political, that it's time to get political. It's way overdue. I don't even think the Harney County militia situation should be discussed much more....The players there have things handled and accurate news is getting out, even if it is mostly from alternative news sources. The assaults on civil rights (gun rights isn't enough of a description for the idiot masses....these need to be called simple civil rights) in Washington and Oregon, with gun bans, secret reporting, elimination of due process, and flat out ABUSE of citizens is the MORE pressing issue now. This is it. If it is allowed to go further you all will be disarmed, disenfranchised, subservient sub-citizens to the progressive urban elite. The political and propaganda war must start now. Nor more redundant griping about who it behind this. I No more delusions of grandeur of legislators being arrested for treason or prosecuted under RICO statutes. It's not going to happen, and posts like that do nothing but help the poster feel better while knowing deep down that they won't make it to the next real protest. I want to see protest dates. Guidelines and behavioral recommendations for those protests. I want lawmakers homes picketed legally. This HAS to take an offensive tone and NOT defensive. And reason and fact must be used. I also think Oregon people need to go north and help protest with the Washington people, and Washington people need to come south and help the Oregonians...as we all know with the copycat progressivism in government here, what happens in one state will soon happen in a neighboring state. We have no choice. What say you? Are you just going to take this?

A good way to get the word out would be fliers with LARGE bold print headlines that clearly state the dire need to protest these laws placed at ALL GUN SHOPS! Include a few relative points regarding how they could be used to destroy rights & a QR code to scan on smartphones that would take them to various websites to learn more information.

 

[pokerace]

GOA email

sign the letter!!!





Gun Grabbers Looking for New Ways to Keep You from Owning Guns

ACTION: Contact your state legislators and tell them to vote NO on any bill that would allow college professors, employers, family members or "health care providers" to secretly report you to the government and have you banned from owning a gun.

Not a GOA member yet? You can join Gun Owners of America today for only $20!

You could be Secretly Blacklisted and Prevented from Owning a Gun!



In almost 30 years of fighting for gun rights, I just read one of the most disturbing pieces of legislation I have ever seen.

Anti-gun radicals in the Oregon Legislature plan to introduce an insane bill creating a secret gun ban list. You can read the bill here.

The draft bill -- which is numbered LC 250 -- allows a wide variety of people, who may not even know you, to secretly report you to government, claim you are "mentally ill" and have you secretly placed on a gun ban list.

Under the bill, college professors, employers, family members or "health care providers" can secretly report you to the government and have you banned from owning a gun.

If this passes, every gun owner in Oregon is in danger of having their rights stripped, without accusation, due process of law, or even notification.

Contact your state legislators NOW and tell them to vote NO on any bill creating a mental health gun ban registry.

There are no legal safeguards to protect you from being placed on the gun ban list.

In fact, under this bill, anti-gun activists like liberal college professors could spend hours tracking down and reporting every gun owner they know.

You will not be told if you are placed on the list.

The reports are anonymous, so you have no way to know who reported you or how you can face your accuser.

And the only way to get your name cleared is to PROVE that you are not a danger to yourself or others.

Although the circulated draft has blank spaces -- and does not say how long your guns would be impounded -- it is possible that you would have to spend thousands of dollars to prove to the government you are not mentally ill.

It is a wholesale attack on the Constitution.

Contact your state legislators NOW and tell them to vote NO on any bill creating a mental health gun ban registry.

Thank you in advance for taking action!

In Liberty,

Erich Pratt
Executive Director

P.S. Contact your state legislators NOW and tell them to vote NO on any bill creating a mental health gun ban registry. This is one of the worst bills I have seen in almost 30 years.

The draft bill creates a secret database of gun owners who will be stripped of their rights without accusation or due process of law. All it takes is one call from an anti-gun activist claiming a person is mentally ill. This is the gun ban totalitarian's dream.

You can also call your state legislators at 800-332-2313. The message is: vote NO on any bill creating a mental health gun ban registry.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Seeing the sitting Legislature ramrodded SB941 through, I see the same thing happening with this one....

Time for gun owners to be just like the BlackLivesMatter crowd, we must be disruptive...

Perhaps disrupting the Legislature during their attempt to vote on this BS legislation would send a strong message to the leftists running the state..

Just sayin'

I'd be there along side of you!!!! I'm in WA but will drive down for a chance to help!!! JLMKW.