OFF All Wrong

[nate2051]

DB Wesner
Thanks for that. And thank you @LethalLovebird for all you are doing for gun safety with the youth.
I never post on forums and the only reason I did this time is because it isn't right for this group to pile on OFF. Kevin is fighting for our 2A liberties and I'll not take the word of a politician as evidence of OFF's failing to accurately report an incident.

 

[DB is Here]

DB Wesner
Thanks for that. And thank you @LethalLovebird for all you are doing for gun safety with the youth.
I never post on forums and the only reason I did this time is because it isn't right for this group to pile on OFF. Kevin is fighting for our 2A liberties and I'll not take the word of a politician as evidence of OFF's failing to accurately report an incident.

Well, we hope you stick around, we can use all the pro 2A folks we can get.

 

[Hal Jordan]

Once again where did you get your information? Straight from OFF? A little due diligence on your part could have shown that what we have been saying all along is correct. There's been no retraction on a few huge recent mistakes by OFF. There's been opportunities to make gains, but he has failed in the clutch. You're entitled to support whoever you like. I just know how I'm going to operate going forward.

OFF posted the following on Facebook three days ago:

And you have talked to Republican Senators and Leadership about this right? Otherwise you would not make the claim that we made "unsupported accusations." So share those conversations with us. What is leadership saying about Knopp's decision to be on the floor when all the other Senators left at great personal expense and peril.

There's a simple solution to end this argument. We post a link to a website where everyone can read about what the Republican leadership said about why Senator Knopp stayed while the rest of them left. Not an email transcript, not a second hand description of a phone conversation, not a "here's what I heard" post. So we can say "Dear Mr. OFF, on one hand here is what you said, and on the other hand here is a link to the official information that shows why you're wrong." All we are saying now is "Dear Mr. OFF, here's why our unsupported accusations are true and your unsupported accusation are not" and that's not the path to a reasonable discussion.

 

[Member 42848]

DB Wesner
Thanks for that. And thank you @LethalLovebird for all you are doing for gun safety with the youth.
I never post on forums and the only reason I did this time is because it isn't right for this group to pile on OFF. Kevin is fighting for our 2A liberties and I'll not take the word of a politician as evidence of OFF's failing to accurately report an incident.

We are all fighting for our rights. That doesn't make him infallible.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

ZigZagZeke,
I am seriously questioning the integrity of this site after seeing the ganging up on one of our foremost defenders of liberty, OFF.
Your accusations are not accurate.
Knopp was not appointed to deliver a message.
Senate Republicans were furious at him for being there when they all took a very personal risk by walking. As you know, they were all subject to arrest for not being there.
There are multiple inconsistencies and inaccurate quotes in your accusation and it disturbs me greatly that you are a lead moderator on this group and attacking OFF.
Kevin and OFF will get more of my support after seeing this slander and piling on.
Nathan

Maybe you should stick around for more than 3 posts in order to assess the integrity of this site. I'm not any kind of admin here, so let's get that straight right now. Did you sign up here just to defend OFF? That's pretty much what it looks like to me.

 

[Defense Minister]

I've called Kevin out several times for the unnecessary sarcasm and disrespect, but to no avail. Despite that, he is on our side and one thing we need to do if we ever want to gain some ground back is to set our differences aside and support each other in the fight.

 

[MxOverkill]

..I really hope someone at OFF checks the facts soon.

Who needs "facts".
It's hysteria that generates contributions

 

[Member 42848]

Who needs "facts".
It's hysteria that generates contributions

Bingo

 

[CountryGent]

On a lighter note, someone should start a thread about the nice ads we see here on NWFA.

View attachment 579641

¡Muy bien! Maybe it is time to reevaluate not seeing ads. Oops, sorry friends.

State your facts?

That would be nice.

Who needs "facts".
It's hysteria that generates contributions

Indeed and it is the reason I dropped support for a different, national-level group that were big on stating the obvious, plenty of hysteria, and, naturally, asking for donations, but did slightly more than nothing in actual activity. Throw in some unscrupulous affiliations and goodbye. And I'll leave it at that.

The thing is with this OFF incident is that is isn't the first time. For example, it wasn't long ago they published outright bullplop on the proposed and amended (and now effectively dead) national reciprocity law. It wasn't a misstatement, misunderstanding, or any legitimate error or omission, that could happen to anyone. (Though, frankly, a simple reading of the statute would have made it clear to anyone with average reading comprehension skills that what they were saying was not accurate.) If that happened and the statement was modified; no harm, no foul, as to err is to be human. However, it was purely unsubstantiated BS and, as far as I can find, they never retracted or modified the missive.

To quote Yogi Berra, "Déjà vu all over again."

 

[NW Backpacker]

Who needs "facts".
It's hysteria that generates contributions

Given the total war on gun rights by the antis, pro-gun-rights organizations could not generate too much hysteria if they tried. We need mass hysteria on our side to counter the mass hysteria of the antis. If our side had about 10 times the hysteria that we do, then we might make some progress.

Things may get worse before they get better. We need to unite and stop bickering amongst ourselves.

EDIT: This picture from an old Breitbart headline is what their side looks like 24/7/365. By comparison our side looks like RBG at a presidential speech!

 

[WillametteWill]

Okay, finally had the opportunity to listen to Kevin's testimony at the 978 hearing. He is OFF the rails in my opinion. After a well spoken opening by the NRA rep Keely Hopkins, he followed with personal attacks including a rant on foster children watching case workers having sex in hotels. I get that his point is there are more important issues facing the state, and don't disagree.

You can tell to truth, or you can aim it.

By aiming it at folks you don't like, it may feel good, but when you are at a hearing like this you are not only trying to convince the reps on the panel, you are working to persuade others whos minds are not made up. Personal attacks on their failures regarding graduations rates, covering up the deaths of babies and cities turning into "refugee camps"...not helping.

Passion is great, and needed. I, we, might not disagree with some or all of the points regarding issues that need attention. But as the second speaker, you just caused a bunch of people to cross their arms, lean back in their chairs, and not listen to the rest of the pro 2A people who dedicated their day, showing up for the cause, including my wife @SouthernGirl (who did not have the opportunity to speak).

My humble $.02

 

[newtonpo]

Every man is fallible. When he's a public figure, his failings can have far reaching consequences. I did apologize to Sen. Knoop, without making to much of it or being obsequious, because i think his explanation and reason are sound and true. Trust but verify. With Kevin, he is passionate about our civil rights and liberties that indeed are under a relatively vicious attack. We are the ugly stepchild the mother loves to abuse because there really is no down side politically in such a far left state. I'll continue to support OFF as i support the NRA, and OGO mainly because it's a tool in our chest, unless he shows further signs of allowing his work to become an unhealthy obsession. Some of the signs of an increasingly out of touch and unpredictable personality are concerning, characterized by his ramblings from The Floor. Further, rabble rousers do not respect the rabble they rouse. Being used in that fashion shows capricious disregard and is dangerous. Stepping away is a form of tough love and a way of allowing a guy, without to much confrontation or engagement to observe his own behaviour through the eyes of those it's affecting. Just personally going to back off for awhile and let that "come to Jesus" moment happen. The enemy of my enemy, so to say, is my ally, and worthy of that regard. Salem's Lot often reference OFF as a thorn in the side that does affect their decision making but if Kevin continues to put more focus on his baby than the cause it was born to?. Fergetabout'it. It'll fall under its own weight. These are political animals and their sensory awareness is focused on their adversaries, if they perceive cracks in the wall, or a lack of cohesiveness in the bonds of various factions, they will turn on it. Human nature on steroids in other words. Just ramblings from my 67yo brain but think it's important enough a situation to make a few observations and share a few opinions that might help develop consensus. Thanks.

 

[Hal Jordan]

Oregon Republicans aren't doing their constituents any favors by hiding all the information about negotiations. Senator Knopp has web pages on the Oregon State Legislature website, but his News and Information page hasn't been updated since 2017. That would be a perfect place for him to talk about why he stayed on the Senate floor when the rest of the Republican Senators were absent. It appears that the only place we can find any information about what's happening in the Legislature is on the Oregon MSM websites. What's wrong with this picture?