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OFF Alert Re: Medford Outrage

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by New York, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. New York

    New York Gresham Member

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  2. Ravenous

    Ravenous West Linn, OR Member

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    I believe in this case he does not need a "legal defense fund" because he is not being prosicuted. They are asking for money from donations so they can use that money to try to make Pyles rich. Technically they are on the offense since they seeking monetary damages. It is rediculous that they should ask for money in this case when any lawyer that thinks he has a chance of winning would gladly work for a percentage of the judgement.
     
  3. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    This. But it's important to note that Oregon jury verdicts in police abuse cases where nobody's killed or seriously injured don't tend to make anybody rich.

    It also would not surprise me if this case ended at the summary judgment stage - where the defendant gets to argue that the plaintiff's case, looked at in the best light, does not meet the minimum legal standards for a lawsuit.* Impossible to say, though, until all of the facts come out.


    *Or, conversely, that the facts of the case as agreed upon by the parties clearly show that the plaintiff should win. My brother won a case like this when he was illegally arrested.
     
  4. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    IMO this is a civil rights issue, if Pyles has a case. It's not a gun issue, per se.

    If it got to a jury and the jury was predominately anti-gun, the jury might see it as a gun issue. That's bad news for Pyles. Conversely, the jury might be pro-gun and see it as a rights violation.

    The court on the other hand could see it as a matter of law and not a matter of a dispute of facts, and deny a jury, and therefore make a summary judgment. If the facts in the case aren't in dispute, neither party is entitled to a jury. A jury is by law a "finder of fact."

    This deal is far from over.
     
  5. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Albany, Oregon Active Member

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    I am NOT anti-law enforcement......note the term "law enforcement".

    Based on the facts that we know at this time I believe the police agencys were wrong, acted outside the law and should be subject to multiple charges. Mr. Pyles apparently broke NO laws. We are not supposed to be governed by the thought police so I hope Mr. Pyles wins on every charge.

    If more information surface that would vindicate the police agencys maybe they should go ahead and come forward and convinve us? (kind of like Obama refusing to close the loop on his birth certificate......if you are in the right....show us)

    As for O.F.F. I don't see anything objectionable here. They have supported many who's rights have been infringed and I understand asking for donations.....whats the big deal.


    T_H
     
  6. New York

    New York Gresham Member

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    For the record:

    Pyles ASKED OFF for help and OFF provided HIS address so people can send money directly to him. Apparently you missed or ignored that. Re-read the alert.

    OFF has spent thousands on the Medford teacher and Jeff Maxwell, and they don't keep one dime of the money.

    OFEF has NEVER paid a penny to anyone (except clerical help) during lengthy campaigns.

    OFF waited until Pyles asked them before they made a move. Great, if the cops were wrong Pyles gets rich. That's a bunch of rubbish! He almost got killed! It's not about money, it's about making sure this does not happen again.

    Gunner3456, it is shamefully obvious that you are a change agent that was assigned to disrupt this list. You remind me of a former banned member, BUZ071. Thankfully, the moderators must have figured that out and hopefully they see it again in you. Go practice your Delphi Techniques somewhere else and leave us Americans alone.

    For those of you who are unaware what this guy is doing, go here:

    http://www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/acf001.htm

    Change agents are easy to spot. In fact, whenever Gunner3456 (or any other change agent that might be on this list) responds to anything, don't try to reason with them. It's pointless. Instead, post this link to raise awareness. Eventually when they realize their cover is blown, they'll either go away or get kicked off the list.

    New York
     
  7. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Holy CATS New York. There is some seriously good reading at that website. For years I have seen this/these scenarios unfold, whether guns, environment, governance or even personal conduct was at stake.
    For years I thought it might be coincidence,... Not a chance given the persons involved in the various processes.

    I am sure everyone here has been involved with a "consensus building" process that started out divisively and ended up being a "compromise" that few really liked, but the outcome was deemed "best for all concerned."
    Now you can realize/prove that you were manipulated and how it was done.

    The whole website will may take days to read through, but I'll be better equipped when I'm done.
    for those that need it again: http://www.learn-usa.com/

    We now return you to your regular topic. :)
     
  8. Lars

    Lars Clackamas Active Member

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    I think that they are trying to set a precedent that if you are a gun owner and are let go or have other wrongs done to you they will come in the middle of the night and take you in for an evaluation. Kind of like having the security guard escort you off the premises on your last day. Pretty soon it will be common place and we'll leave the light on and the key under the mat so no damage is done to the house. Maybe my wife could pack me a go bag to take with me, toothbrush, clean undies, soap on a rope?:paranoid:
     
  9. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Gunner, the situation you describe and the police admit to, the use of SWAT, smacks of the iron fisted Soviet secret police tactics.

    You are buds with a few Medford cops? Fine, they are all great guys in your eyes. As individuals that may be.
    You say Mr. Pyles went "voluntarily." I say SSP tactics were used that left him no other option.
    SO stop trying to say that David Pyles wasn't forced to submit at the barrel of a gun. He says it, Medford Police say it, OSP says it.
    Yet you persist that Mr Pyles went willingly.
    That is being a liar. Which you claim to hate? You must be self loathing or delusional.
     
  10. Ravenous

    Ravenous West Linn, OR Member

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    I just don't understand why I should donate money to Mr. Pyles. He went through a very short albeit scary ordeal. In the grand scheme of things this will have had very little impact on his life. The media has already stated that it was a mistake and he was returned home and has regained possession of his guns. Donate your money to the local childrens cancer ward if you want to give to somebody who is truly suffering. Donating money to him does not change the situation.
     
  11. Ravenous

    Ravenous West Linn, OR Member

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    Damn, I've agreed with Gunner on a lot of things based on principal and available information... I guess I am a dissenter as well.
     
  12. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    If everyone agreed on the forum, we wouldn't have a forum. :thumbup:
     
  13. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Wow, straight out of Saul Alinsky's playbook. Ridicule the opposing view.
    You're looking more and more progressive as we debate gunner.
    Don't attack the info, refuting it with facts.
    Attack the poster, ridiculing their argument.

    The facts don't support your argument gunner, plain and simple. There was no "willful submission" on Mr. Pyles' part.
    It isn't happening all over Oregon, thank God, because OSP probably realizes now how/why they screwed up.
    If your line of thinking about how this came about was really valid, it would be happening all over Oregon.
     
  14. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Of course you won't mind if I tell you I think you're completely off the deep end will you? :)

    There is no stronger gun rights advocate than I, and no one is more into stockpiling guns and ammo for investment and who knows what else.

    It's just that despite my 2a protection efforts, my CHL, my shooting practice, my home defense system and my general distrust of government, I haven't been convinced that the police do this often or that they did it with ill intent. No one has proven that they acted outside of the law.

    There are lies in OFF's web page and it's an embarrassment to them to try to raise money that way.

    You also won't mind me saying that I think your mind is warped, will you? :)

    I will set up a fund for your lifetime supply of tinfoil hats, though, just out of compassion for you. :thumbup:
     
  15. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Mods? Buehler? Buehler?
     
  16. matt_w

    matt_w Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    To the OP:

    I respect the OFF but this article was kind of ridiculous. I'm no Obama fan, but was it really necessary to tie him to the whole thing?

    IMO events like this aren't the fault of the police or "the system". It's all the media/people who freak out everytime there is a shooting and try to find someone to blame/sue. Can you imagine the blowback on the police if they had done nothing and he had actually killed someone? I guess they were pretty much in a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation.

    edit: Also, shame on gunner for starting a flame war on purpose. The other thread was already long enough :p
     
  17. chris61182

    chris61182 A little west of Portland Active Member

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    The frequency of it happening is immaterial, and I agree it's unlikely it was truly with ill intent, though the concept of knowing better is valid.

    Really? They can use the mental health hold when the person is not and has not made threats against themselves or others?

    By the police's own reports there was no probable cause, then mysteriously and with out explanation 20 minutes later they decided they should anyways.
     
  18. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Can you imagine the blowback on the police if they had done nothing and he had actually killed someone? I guess they were pretty much in a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation.

    This is the best point that has been made in this entire thread. Granted they WAY LE responded may be questionable, but I don't feel they had any choice, but to respond. Leave it to the courts to figure out if their response was over the top or not.
     
  19. chris61182

    chris61182 A little west of Portland Active Member

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    Except the police were already doing their job and had him under surveillance. What exactly was he going to manage to accomplish?
     
  20. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Maybe suicide? Reports were that he was increasing disheveled and maybe depressed. That's by far enough for protective custody.