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Obama Threatening to Pass Anti-gun Health Care by Cheating

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Chee-to, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this post is offensive to some people.......:(

    Obama Threatening to Pass Anti-gun Health Care by Cheating

    Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
    8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
    Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
    http://gunowners.org

    Thursday, February 25, 2010


    He;s like a playground bully -- on steroids!

    According to a recent poll, only 23% of the American people want Congress to pass the anti-gun ObamaCare bill.

    And the President's response to this? He believes Americans are just too stupid to understand what geniuses like him, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are trying to do for us.

    So what is Obama's current plan?

    Cheat.

    ObamaCare is already the product of fraud, secrecy, bribery, and corruption. But Obama is preparing to ratchet up this corruption to a whole new level.

    In 1974, Congress created a special process for balancing the budget. Senators could reduce the deficit with a simple 51 votes in the Senate, rather than getting the 60 needed votes to stop a filibuster. Under the rules, this process -- called "reconciliation" -- can ONLY be used for balancing the budget.

    To repeat, it cannot be used for anything other than reducing the deficit. By contrast, ObamaCare would INCREASE the deficit by at least $500 BILLION.

    So what does Obama do (with the help of crooked accountants at the Congressional Budget Office)?

    He lies.

    He fraudulently pretends the anti-gun ObamaCare legislation would reduce the deficit. And he does this by hiding costs and pretending he's going to make cuts he never intends to fully implement ($465 billion in Medicare cuts).

    And he intends to use this fraud scheme to cram ObamaCare down the throats of the American people against their will.

    Americans don't want the increased taxes and gun control that have been injected into the bill. Remember, Majority Leader Harry Reid tried to claim his legislation fixed the problems that Gun Owners of America had with this legislation.

    But in reality, the bill still allows the ATF to troll a health/gun database in order to take away firearms from tens of millions of Americans.

    ACTION: Please contact your two senators and your representative. Tell them that using the budget-balancing "reconciliation" process to pass ObamaCare is nothing but cheating.

    You can use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send a pre-written message to your legislators.

    ----- Pre-written letter -----

    Dear

    ObamaCare is already the product of fraud, secrecy, bribery, and corruption. But Obama is preparing to ratchet up this corruption to a whole new level.

    In 1974, Congress created a special process for balancing the budget -- with a simple 51 votes in the Senate, rather than the 60 needed to stop a filibuster. Under the rules, this process -- called "reconciliation" -- can ONLY be used for reducing the deficit.

    To repeat, it cannot be used for anything other than reducing the deficit. By contrast, ObamaCare would INCREASE the deficit by at least $500 BILLION.

    So what does Obama do (with the help of crooked congressional accountants at the Congressional Budget Office)? He lies. He fraudulently pretends ObamaCare would reduce the deficit. And he does this by hiding costs (the $247 billion "doc fix") and pretending he's going to make cuts he never intends to fully implement ($465 billion in Medicare cuts).

    This "reconciliation" scheme is nothing more than a fraud on the American people, who, according to every recent poll, oppose ObamaCare by overwhelming majorities.

    Understand this: I strongly object to this "cheat scheme."

    Majority Leader Harry Reid has tried to claim his legislation fixed the anti-gun problems in ObamaCare. But in reality, it will still allow the ATF to troll a health/gun database in order to take away firearms from tens of millions of Americans.

    Please oppose the use of "reconciliation" to pass ObamaCare.

    Sincerely,
     
  2. mr11b

    mr11b Portland, OR Member

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    Forgive my ignorance, but I haven't heard anything about gun control being injected into the health care crap, reform, theft whatever you want to call it :)

    Do you have more information on what gun control is being mentioned? I just have never heard of it being called anti gun obama care. I'm already strongly against it, so I can't imagine the ear full my girlfriend will get when I hear about this ;)
     
  3. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    +1, I'm unaware of any anti-gun provisions in the bill.
     
  4. Sasquatchvnv

    Sasquatchvnv Port Orchard Active Member

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    The Gooberment can remove you're 2A rights for medical reasons (e.g. Vet w/PTSD, any visit to a shrink, etc.). There is also a concern that Obamacare will be used to regulate "risky" behavior by denying coverage to anyone who engages in activity that the insurance companies or gooberment deems "risky". Motorcycle riding, firearm ownership, or insert your favorite pastime here...
     
  5. BPN

    BPN About 20min N of Seattle Member

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    +1 to that

    It seems as though individual States are taking more anti-gun actions at least from what I see in Washington (the state)
     
  6. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The bill (H.R. 3962) is 1,990 pages long and weighs over 20 pounds. And even though a search of the bill will not reveal the word “gun” or “firearm,” that doesn’t mean the bill is neutral in regard to your Second Amendment rights.

    For starters, this bill will -- like all the ObamaCare versions before it -- most likely result in all of your gun-related health data being dumped into a government database that was created in the stimulus bill. This includes any firearms-related information your doctor has gleaned... or any determination of PTSD, or something similar, that can preclude you from owning firearms.

    The bill will also create special "wellness" programs in section 112 which would allow the government to offer lower premiums to employers who bribe their employees to live healthier lifestyles -- and nothing within the bill would prohibit rabidly anti-gun HHS Secretary Sebelius from decreeing that "no guns" is somehow healthier.
     
  7. matt_w

    matt_w Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Opposing the bill for the huge list of other bad things in it seems like a better use of time than opposing it for something that "could" happen.
     
  8. supergenius

    supergenius 206 Active Member

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    They actually killed 2 trees for that thing??? what a waste
     
  9. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It's going to be tuff for him to get the 51 votes. Some of those Dems want to stick around for another term or two. ;)
     
  10. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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    ====================================================

    I didn't like this E-mail alert. Came across as being sensationalistic very similar in tone to something that I would expect from the Brady campaign. Where it might all be true I feel I have to discount on the basis of being propaganda and not real news.

    This seems to be the state of politics today.

    I find something like this much more effective.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMdPTpOyUk4&feature=player_embedded
     
  11. mr11b

    mr11b Portland, OR Member

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    I could see how something like that has made its way in there. Especially with all the other crap they are putting in that thing. Just haven't heard of it before. I'll be doing some more looking for sure!
     
  12. supergenius

    supergenius 206 Active Member

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    Ya but hes let the whole guun control issue thing go for the most part.. It wouldnt suprise me to see them try to slip it in the obamacare bill.

    Keep on stackin up boys.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2010
  13. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    +1
     
  14. watcher

    watcher West of Portland Member

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    Do you guys pushing this stuff check under your bed to make sure Obama isn't hiding there before you go to sleep?
     
  15. gunnails

    gunnails Hillsboro Active Member

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    ================================================

    I think we are trying to be more vigilant then anything.

    That and create interesting discussion.
     
  16. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Actually it's the NRA, GOA, and most other pro-gun groups that's pushing this stuff.
     
  17. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    The Bush admin (among others) passed TONS of controversial measures through reconciliation. The only reason it's even become an issue is that Obama's politically weak right now.


    Makes me want to send some money to the OFF or the Second Amendment Foundation. I don't like it when gun politics get mixed up with partisan politics.
     
  18. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

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    I don't see anything remotely anti-gun in any healthcare proposal. Conservative conspiracy theorists and opportunists have concocted some outlandish conspiracy that, after some very broad interpretation of language in the law and a flat out disregard for other laws, would allow for a restriction of gun rights. This "theory" has no basis in fact and any number of federal laws, with that much "broad interpretation" could be used to restrict gun rights. I agree that this e-mail reminds me of something from the Brady Campaign--full of so-called "facts" that are total misrepresentations.

    Whether you agree or disagree with healthcare reform, or any issue, I feel both sides have a responsibility to debate each bill on its actual merits or shortcomings, not invent stuff. Everyone on this forum gets fired up when when people misrepresent firearms or firearms laws to advance an anti-gun agenda. It's wrong to call rifle rounds "cop-killer bullets" and AR-15s with bayonet lugs "dangerous assault weapons." And, it's wrong to call a healthcare bill "anti-gun legislation." There's enough garbage in the Senate Bill, the House Bill, and the President's proposal to make a case against the bills without resorting to flat out lying.

    On a side note, it is a bit disingenuous for conservatives to complain about actions, they themselves have taken in the past:

    FACT: Since 1980, reconciliation has been used 22 times, 16 by Republicans.

    FACT: Until the early 2000's, reconciliation could only be used to reduce the deficit. A REPUBLICAN controlled congress changed the rules, removing the deficit reduction provision, in order to pass the Bush tax cuts which increased the deficit.

    It's not shady when one party uses procedural rules to prevent votes on issues, but it is when a party uses procedural rules to vote on an issue? The fact is that a majority still has to vote for this in order for it to pass. I think both sides are playing dirty, but until the Senate rules are reformed to at least bring back the "floor fight" for the filibuster, both parties are going to backdoor their agendas.
     
  19. Generator

    Generator Bend Member

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    Sensible man.
    Both parties are out to .... well they are for their own power... and they cater to different parties to get their votes.

    Jeffersonian politics would have people with a term locally, a term at state, a term in the big house.. and hopefully not one at the other big house and back to citizen.
    These days both parties futures decide to be politicians in a middle school presidential run.

    I want health care reform, I want a lot of what the Repubs want, and some of the Dems, I don't want a public option, but 'tort' reform is a 3% reform and only shows you are on a party line, not a people line!

    I want bills to be about 1 issue.
    no pork, no FBI building in Alabama, no Gun Control unless its a 2nd Ammend issue.

    All politicians (maybe a few didn't) hide things and therefore they are all out for themselves, none of them (maybe one or two in the house... I'm not angry at 2 of the 3 Oregonians who have some pull) I am very pleased since moving to Oregon comparatively... but its all relative.

    but ONE ISSUE, ONE VOTING SESSION... I go to city council every other week down the road and I love when they realize.. .heck this is two issues and they break it apart, and discuss it, and look into my camera and say 'this may sink my re-election, but ...' - City employees who care in the City next to mine.
    State and Federal... we are... F..... the ones who give a darn about you are few and far between.
     
  20. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    I have had Kaizer Permanete for years. I have seen anti gun stuff there. I know damn well government care will be more assertive about that. If you don't you have your head in the sand or somewhere very dark!
     
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