Obama regime targets gunsmiths with new executive order

[The Heretic]

Heretic
You have a lot more faith in the system, and the emperor than I do . . . I sincerely hope you are right!?!?!?!? In the meantime I won't hold my breath!!!!

Sheldon

Actually, I am very cynical about "the system", or rather, about people in general.

The people in "the system" are corrupt and dishonest and power hungry.

The populace in general are idiots who vote for whomever tells them the lies they want to hear - this is true of both liberals and conservatives. Liberals vote for pols who tell them tales of "hope" and promise them that the government will provide for them and protect them. Conservatives vote for the pols who tell them tales of fear and loathing. Both groups of pols are telling lies for the most part, and the people voting for them falling for those lies and lying to themselves.

Very few people want to hear the truth, much less seek it out.

You get the government you vote for.

I have no illusions that liberal pols, including Obama, Clinton, et. al., don't want to take our guns - they most certainly do. They want to because in the long run they don't want an armed populace - such a populace threatens their power. Many pols and bureaucrats, from the top, down to your local county offices, want that power, and don't want citizens to have power.

Too much of the populace is all too willing to go along - they don't want the responsibility for their own lives and are wanting someone else, anybody else, to take that responsibility from them - even though it is a lie, and most of them know it, at some level.

----

But one of the bad things about the pro-gun side is we are all too willing to get riled up about things that are not the real problem, not a real threat. From black helicopters to blue helmets to BS about ITAR.

Maybe someday ITAR would be a threat to us. Maybe it is today. But I don't think so, and I challenge everybody to look at any kind of rabble rousing with a cynical eye. Remember, there are people on both sides of any issue who are all too willing to lie, or at least stretch the truth, in order to get what they want. Don't trust anybody. Or if you must, trust, but verify.

 

[PaulB47]

Just the usual thing, isn't it? We all already commit 3 felonies per day. More of the same...

It's long past the point that it makes any sense to submit to arrest any more. Someone comes after you, your Revolution has already begun.

 

[Dungannon]

Asked for more money...

I read that article twice and must have missed the request for money. Show me.

What the NRA did was alert folks to what Obama did. Until the feds take action against someone based on this Exec Order, what legal standing do they have to take action?

 

[donaldc]

I just thought of this, Take any .308 Winchester bolt gun. Standard mil spec load is 150 gr ball, Right? suppose you "switch" to 168 gr soft point? You just increased it's performance! Think about this!!! So to help us avoid making this mistake, they regulate what ammo we can have, and how much of it we can have at one time! see where this is going? Cant install an optic, cant change ammo, cant have more then a certain amount of ammo, cant even install a sling! All add to performance! And you think it stops there? Every fire arm EVER MADE falls under these draconian laws! Even the lowely muzzle loading arms of the past, now illegal!

While this order is extremely broad - frankly I am disgusted that these kinds of "regulations" are allowed to become "law of the land" (I believe laws should be passed by congress, as the Constitution intended) - I do not believe this regulation covers that specific example. Remember, in legal contexts, EVERY SINGLE WORD matters.

From the Department of State guidance (page 2):
DDTC has found that many traditional gunsmithing activities do not constitute manufacturing for ITAR purposes and, therefore, do not require registration under the ITAR, particularly where such activities do not require cutting, drilling, or machining and do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or operation of the ITAR-controlled firearm beyond its original capabilities.

<broken link removed>

 

[Ura-Ki]

While that may be a stretch as I pointed to that example, I can see the wording alluding to just that sort of thing. As unlikely as that example sounds, it is also highly likely given the way the law is intentionally written! While it IS subject to review and such, much of the time, these orders stand as written until the back log can be cleared, intentionally leaving it "on the books" for years and years, with out review! So they just play the stall game, and we get screwed!

 

[bmtm09]

Lol...breaking the law...breaking the law

 

[The Heretic]

Most laws are written to be broad and somewhat vague.

If they don't, then there is always some unintended loophole or missing coverage where they actually intended it to be.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I just committed my 7th felony, and the day isn't even half over! Time to drive to town and see how many more felonies I can get in before dinner! LOL

 

[The Heretic]

At the same time the law has to be clear and specific enough for people, or at least the courts, to understand. It is a fine balance.

A lot of laws are well behind the times with regards to technology because they are so specific.

 

[ma96782]

Who knows what the next election will bring?

BUT...........



So.....vote wisely.

Though it feels like I'm preaching to the choir here.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Sstrand]

OK, all you people who think the government administers laws/rules/regulations even-handedly and without bias. Are you willing to join me in applying as a 501 (C) . . . "Not For Profit" organization to further conservative causes????
OH, you think the IRS might slow down the approval process . . . I REST MY CASE!!!!!

Sheldon

 

[The Heretic]

It isn't "the government" or "the system". As if "the government" is some sort of separate entity. It is made up of people and people are human and therefore all too corruptible and gullible. The government is us.

If you want to know who is to blame for "the government" - go look in the mirror.

You get the government you vote for.

 

[Ura-Ki]

If you discount the Military, almost 70% of Gov employees are in fact just like you and me! It's the high level class of Elites that have and wield all the power! The true nature of our gov still flows from we the people!

 

[OutlawHoss]

It isn't "the government" or "the system". As if "the government" is some sort of separate entity. It is made up of people and people are human and therefore all too corruptible and gullible. The government is us.

If you want to know who is to blame for "the government" - go look in the mirror.

You get the government you vote for.

I understand that argument, but I simply don't agree. It assumes that people's votes translate directly to how government is run. Firstly this is simply cannot be the case when the majority vote rules: you instantly create a class of people being ruled by people they didn't vote for. Secondly, your argument assumes that government operates without other causal factors that influence its behavior; this is obviously not true, to the point that vast majority of people agree that the government is highly corrupted/corruptible. Without transparency, accountability, and consequences, government is de facto operating on its own. The people cannot exercise their will or power as the Constitution intended if they don't have accurate information and facts to inform them, as well as an infallible, effective system to implement those changes that is separate from government itself. Common folk couldn't be more estranged from government as they are now, and more clueless about what is really going on without our consent or knowledge.

 

[The Heretic]

Your vote does translate to how government is run if you vote corrupt ones out of office and don't vote for "the lesser of two evils" or for the ones that are lying to you.

They can't get in office or stay in office without our votes.

So yes, we do get the government we vote for.

And no, it isn't just the elites, it is the people on the school boards, the local planning councils, the mayors, the city managers, the sheriffs, everybody. They don't get in without your vote and many are corrupt. If they are not doing their jobs, if they don't follow the rule of law, if they are not doing what you want them to do, then vote them out.

There is no alternative at this point in time.

 

[The Heretic]

But yes - there is such a thing as "the mob" being the dictator.

By "we", I mean all of the populace.

 

[bmtm09]

It isn't "the government" or "the system". As if "the government" is some sort of separate entity. It is made up of people and people are human and therefore all too corruptible and gullible. The government is us.

If you want to know who is to blame for "the government" - go look in the mirror.

You get the government you vote for.

Sorry..once they assume power of office they stop being one of us.99 percent of them once they get in office push their own agendas and are in it for money and power only.. we are just so used to it we live with it

 

[OutlawHoss]

I agree that PTA's, city councils, county officials, even some state reps are 'us'. But time and time again politicians, especially on the national level, don't do what they campaigned for to get elected, and become 'bought' by special interests, and do things no one elected them to do. The examples are myriad. It's naive to think politicians are so accountable to support the idea we 'deserve' them because they are us. Did we elect Bloomberg to pass a universal background check in Oregon? No, not only is he not an elected official, he isn't even a citizen of Oregon; he bought influence he simply shouldn't have, and changed the law of the land through deception. This is the norm instead of the exception. Do we deserve Obama's special interests being enforced on us, without our input or consent? Our national legislators didn't even vote on these new regulations, which is what this ITAR fiat accomplishes; it's pretty thin to think Obama's just reinterpreting his extant executive powers.
Vote the corrupted officials out? How's that working for you? I agree most people are easily swayed by irrational, emotion based, reactive behaviors, mostly through pop culture memes. And the nature of any large bureaucracy is to use the lowest common denominators to determine policy and law. But it's a long con to think politicians are working for the people's best interests, and the con is being done by the politicians and their unnamed benefactors who they are really loyal to.

 

[The Heretic]

Sorry..once they assume power of office they stop being one of us.99 percent of them once they get in office push their own agendas and are in it for money and power only.. we are just so used to it we live with it

Most people are not instantly corrupted by power, although some seek it out because they are already somewhat corrupt.

The thing to do is to vote them out if they show signs of corruption.

But most people (voters) won't. The will vote for the incumbent.

 

[The Heretic]

There is also a danger in thinking of the problem as "them" and "us".

It dehumanizes "them" whoever "them" is.