Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Muddman, Sep 4, 2009.
So the opposing point of view would be that children should not hear from the duly-elected President of the United States? We should shelter our children from hearing from their President? We had an election. It was fair. It was a landslide.
I worry about the apparent lack of commitment of some people to democratic principles where sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but you agree to abide by the outcome. It's the American system. It makes us unusual, if not unique. The alternative is scary.
From the article:
Politics as usual.
Tell me CEF, were you one of the complainers in '91?
The opposing side ALWAYS complains when they suspect an agenda aimed at indoctrination of young minds.
Whether it's from the prez, the pope or anybody else.
Some people are just intolerant and too insecure to allow their children to be exposed to various points of view. But if there is to be any point of view that kids should hear, it should be from their duly elected, democratically elected, president. Do you think they should be shielded from the democratically-elected president? Maybe you don't believe in democratic elections?
No, I was not opposed to GHWB's message to my kids (who were in public school at the time). So you think I should have been? But how about you? It was OK for GHWB and not for Obama? Or wrong for both?
I favor children hearing from their duly-elected president. Because I respect democratic elections. How about you?
I also favor children hearing a variety of points of view. How about you?
Where do you stand on democratic elections?
One of the points from the news last night was not the the President was addressing school kids, but that they were directing the Department of Education on one of their lesson plans.
Gotta link? I'll bet I can guess what "news" channel it was.
Adolph Hitler said: "Let me control the children and I'll control the country." That's why he had the "Hitler Youth."
And therefore American children should never be exposed to speeches given by their democratically-elected president.
Funny, we never heard that sort of message before. When I was a kid, we had school assemblies to watch presidential speeches. Nixon at the time. We called it civics. Part of a kid's education. Even as kids, we could look at it and decide what we thought was right and what was wrong. If we had questions, we asked our parents. It was part of growing up in a democratic society.
Now, when people oppose the results of a democratic election, they call it indoctrination and insist that it be suppressed.
My vote for moron of the day goes to you. So...if the president makes a speech, he is Hitler? What f-ing planet do you live on? I am very conservative, but the mere suggestion that the PUSA wants to make a speech to school children is not that bad. I would want to see a transcript before hand (all presidential speeches have some sort of pre-distributed transcript). If Obama wants to say study hard and get good grades, I'm all for it.
I have a theory when it comes to zealots on all sides. The first person to call someone Hitler is CLEARLY the moron of the group, and cannot think of a coherent argument of their own.
That's the whole problem... he was NOT democratically-elected. He was "purchased" and placed in office by the folks who actually run the "show". The democratic process is non-existent in this country, and has been for some time now.
"They" count on our ignorance and overall level of dumbed-downedness, and chuckle at how we debate back and forth over unimportant issues like this that hold zero relevance to anything.
So if someone trying to draw a (reasonable) comparison invokes the name "Hitler", that makes him a moron? What does that make you for pointing your finger and resorting to name-calling?
And that is the primary issue I have with it, why do it live? I want to at a very minimum see a transcript first, but really pre-recording it and giving the parents, teachers, and schools an opportunity to make some decisions on how to best incorporate it into their lesson plans or to not otherwise disrupt previously planned school events would have been a much better choice.
The Jesuits say "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man". That's why they concentrate on education.
I love how it always goes directly to Nazism.
The best thing to do is walk through the material with your kids. They should be able to hold two opposing views in their head and discuss each.
I also love the mysterious "they". Makes me want to fold a tinfoil hat.
The reason they don't want Obama to be making speeches about what they can do to "help him", is that people don't trust Obama. First of all, he was not elected fairly, it was the media propaganda machine and rigging voting stations that got him elected. Did anyone care about the fact that dead people and people with multiple voting ballots were all voting for Obama? Did it make the liberal news? Fox did a report on it, but nobody listened or cared. The black panthers were assisting Obama in the rigging in afro american communities. Other liberal organizations also were reported for voting fraud; remember ACORN??? LANDSLIDE?? I Don't Think So. He barely won most of the states. Had a few more voters on the conservative participated in each of these states, he would have lost by a landslide. Even though he won more states, he hardly won by a landslide, go examine the total votes by each state.
I know many will disagree, but he has yet to produce a birth certificate proving his citizenship. There are many matching eyewitness accounts and even they have records of him being born in a village in Kenya. The birth certificate from the state of Hawaii does not match other birth certificates of its time and has been deemed Not Authentic. They have sealed his birth certificate and refused to produce it to the public; it is rare for a poltician in question like this, to withhold such a vital document from the public.
Obama has made several racist statements, preached divisive speeches, has a history of associating with terrorists, mafia, left-wing radicals and other unsavory characters which make many conservatives and other open-minded people very untrusting of the man. This is certainly not about race, as many afro american politicians would go to schools to speak to children. This is more about Obama and his radical policies, dangerous associations and his messiah-like personality.
There is giant murals of Obama on the walls of Portland, not much different than the murals of Sadam Hussein that were in Baghdad. People are very paranoid and wondering what the intentions are of this man, who has been raised to the rank of a mythological savior. They bow down and worship him for God knows what reason. All those golden promises he dispensed during the election have not come true and many are backfiring. People see his Health care plan is a total mess and unfeasible. He pledged more troops for Afghanistan. So much for ending the wars and Bushes, so-called "failed policies". Actually, many of the measures that are keeping him above water or just continuations of what Bush did. Where are all the hippies and whiners about the war, when he announced more troops? I sure don't see as many anti-war posters around as I use to, yet the war is still raging on. Ironic isn't it??? He has wasted a lot of our tax money in attempt to save companies that cannot produce a product that interests the public . Now, we the people, must make up for the mistakes of corporations. Since, the bailout plans are backfiring and these companies will continue their downward spiral, what is Obam's solution? MORE TAXES!! Lets tax the rich and then try to enslave them, forcing their businesses to be under government control. The brutal tax system and numerous fradulent lawsuits have scared away a good number of multi-national corps, decreasing jobs and transferring our workforce overseas. The government now is forcing the Swiss banks to break their lifelong commitment to secrecy, since the a very large number of businesses hiding their assets in these banks, to avoid the global tax. The liberal leaders, Obama at the center, cut open our wrists and then give us a small band-aid that is not sufficient for the wound.
As much as I think a president should be able to speak with children, I don't oppose those who would want to keep their children as far from Obama as possible. Yes, he really would like to brainwash them and have them at his service. He is a megalomanic, and his presidental career was never to help the public, but rather to help his own image. He is a double-talking, two-faced, racist and unethical traitor, IMHO. Would I want my kids to hear a speech on whnat they can do for the president and the state , comrade? His wording is disturbing. If he wanted to give a speech on trying to help kids stay in school and produce positive messages, I would still not trust him, but wouldn't be petrified, as I am with his, "HELP THE PRESIDENT" speech. NO THANKS!
Sorry CEF, but that would NOT be me. I just asked a question based on what I read in the article and pointed out that BOTH political parties do this and obviously have for some time.
I would say no,... With a caveat.
If that president isn't furthering an agenda of indoctrination of say,... Marxism, then I say okay. There are many people surrounding this president that believe in and regularly espouse doctrine that is contrary to the constitution and common sense concerning the American majority's values. Have those people influenced the message to be delivered in this speech? I hope NOT!
As for this particular speech? I haven't seen the promised transcript yet so I will reserve judgment.
Of course I do. I am an American who has voted both sides of the ticket more than anyone I have ever met.
But I can't remember in the last 45 years worth of national elections when a president "duly elected" has deviated this far from his campaign promises. Everything from his "transparency" promises to his "govern from the middle" promises have been shattered in the first 8.5 months.
During the campaign he told us to look at who he gets advice from to get an idea of what his policies will be. He stated those were people like Paul Volker and Warren buffet. Not self proclaimed communists like Van Jones and animal rights extremists like Cass Sunstien, who currently hold "special advisor" positions.
Your insecurity and animosity is starting to show btw,...
You want me to commit to a blanket approval or admonishment based on WHO is delivering the message. You have obviously prejudged this message as okay because it is from Obama. I did no such thing for GHWB and still wouldn't.
You are advocating FOR the message without knowing it's content. I thought you said you had legal experience. Is this to be precedent now? That it's okay to give blanket approval of a message based on the messenger?
Nixon was duly elected too. I would not want him explaining to kids the advantages of executive privilege.
All differing points of view? Do you believe child molesters should be given a venue in schools?
How 'bout the head person at NAMBLA,... Him too?
Again, you are making blanket statements without regard for the proposed content.
Maybe you should think again.
I talked to my x-wife and we both desided to have our girls stay home that day. Everything they (Government) are doing is back stabbing and fashious to no end. Everytime I turn around I'm hearing about or seeing something stuped from them. Like the Marine from Camas, Washington said. "" LEAVE MY KIDS ALONE!""
I usually stay away from these pig-wrestling threads, but his one offers an opportunity for a little meta-critique.
What I see here are a majority of posters saying, "Oh, get over it, the POTUS is giving a speech to schoolkids, so what?"
A vocal minority invokes dark conspiracies of brainwashing, media propaganda and the obligatory H-namecalling that invariably pops up in lieu of logical argument.
I am reasonably certain that no poster is prepared to change his/her mind on the subject, so these observations are intended only to point out who you've chosen as your kin to each of you.
Are you proud to be associated with the group that you've chosen? Do you feel that the dialectic approach of your group is reasonable, civil, appropriate, or even honest? Does it matter to you one way or t'other? Or does the end justify the means in this or any other contest? Don't answer me - just turn off the TV, look in the mirror, and think about it.
"Don't ever wrestle with a pig: You'll only get all dirty, and besides - the pig LIKES it!"
"Don't believe everything you think."
Ah, but I see you have no problem with someone invoking American "Taliban" the enemy that's currently killing Americans, and renown for their brutal repressive rule under shariah law and have sworn to destroy the United States Of America. How does that fit into your theory ? Personally I find it extremely insulting. BTW, shouting "American Taliban" is a favorite tactic of the DU (democratic underground) when they encounter "anyone" who disagrees with their agenda/philosophy..........:wow:
My 2 cents... well maybe 1 cent, not having any children of my own.
I think content of the president's speech important here. To that end, I appreciate that a transcript of the speech will be posted on Monday (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/04/obama.schools/): "White House officials said that Obama's speech, the text of which will be available on the Web on Monday, is not unprecedented." I won't make assumptions about content until I've read the transcript.
Still, the president should be able to record a speech and broadcast it if he wishes. But more importantly, the school districts MUST have the chance to review the material in advance, and make their own determination as to whether the speech will air. Finally, and most importantly, parents have a right to review the material of the speech in advance, and keep their children home if they deem the content of the speech inappropriate.
Of course the determination of appropriate material is anything but objective this day in age. I can only hope that when I have children I will be able to explain my own worldviews to them while providing them with the tools and guidance to develop their own.
Well, you can bet your bippy you won't find anything on any of the liberal networks, you're right about that....If you want a link;........
Separate names with a comma.