Obama announces comprehensive gun control package

[WhyteCheddar]

I don't care how bad anyone disliked Romney. He opposed Obamas AWB wet dream during the debates. We all know politicians lie, but unless you are a mind reader there are times when you have to weigh what they say. In this case Obama has never been a friend to the 2A. A vote for Barry is, was, and has always been a risk at what we are about to see attempted. And with the downhill momentum of American culture/society, I doubt there will be any stopping it.
There is no justification for an Obama vote if the 2A is precious to you.
That does not mean I hate you if that's how you voted, just have the integrity to admit that you bubblegummed up.

 

[sig]

So, do you right-wingers want to cry to your mommies about Obama, or do you want to think creatively about how to defeat an AWB? The choice is yours.
The coalition that the administration needs can be split and beaten. DiFi is not popular on the left. She just led a nasty beat down in the Senate on a bipartisan effort to amend the the Patriot Act to protect the 4th amendment . Her AWB exempts private military contractors. Her husband is a big lobbyist for the defense industry. These points can be used to give liberal AWB supporters doubt.
But first, there has to be an alternative we can offer to address the violence that has shaken people up. The NRA's proposal might seem reasonable to gun people, but trust me, it looks crazy to the uninitiated. Talking about guns and gun rights is a sure way to lose the fight, because gun owners with semi automatics are a small minority. Plus, what people really care about is Harm Reduction.
If we could get pro-A2 muscle behind a serious proposal to increase federal support for mental health care, it would really shake up the debate. Then potential liberal AWB supporters would be faced with a choice: achieve a long-hoped for goal of improving one of the most underfunded aspects of health care, with a guaranteed benefit to millions, or spend political capital on a divisive effort that has already been tried and failed.
Unfortunately, so many A2 supporters are into right wing political correctness and lack the flexibility to think outside the box (the same box that served up a big portion of electoral FAIL in November).

There is an alternative solution to the problem. We could hold the politicians, judges and attorneys accountable every time they turn one of these animals loose... Like that will ever happen...

 

[Stomper]

As a progressive type guy I can not defend anyone in Congress or the POTUS for supporting gun control. Here is my post to my Facebook page a few days after Sandy Hook:

I am angry. I am so incredibly angry I can hardly stand it. I want to stomp the body of Adam Lanza into dust. Then I want to do it again. How many Virginia Tech's, Columbine's, Aurora's and Sandy Hook's can we tolerate? To echo President Obama these tragedies must end, we can not tolerate anymore of this violence.

However, I am incensed, furious, and frankly pissed off, about all this talk of gun control because it misses the point and more importantly will be an ineffective strategy. Let's get one thing straight before I continue: I am a gun owner and I love to shoot. I am also not your stereotypical right-wing gun owner. I do not belong to the NRA or any other gun advocacy group. I tend to vote democratic and identify better with the progressive political philosophy. That said, I am a staunch supporter of the Constitution and ALL of its amendments.

But folks, this talk of gun control is ludicrous. This is a "how do we reverse the gutting of mental health care funding" issue. This should be a talk about prevention. Instead it is the usual knee jerk reactionary irrational and illogical crap that doesn't address the problems or even come close to addressing the real issue of mental health.

I am infuriated that the politicians and media are making a feeding frenzy of guns and gun control. By focusing on the guns the focus is shifted off the shooter and the responsibility placed on an inanimate object. If that is the route we as a society decide to take then is there a reason to penalize and incarcerate drunk drivers? Following the gun control line of thought the answer would be no and of course cars must be controlled above and beyond what they already are.

Are there any gun laws on the books now that would've changed anything in any shooting you can think of? If a person is going to offensively use a gun then no law, no huge amount of laws is going to prevent that. The ironic part of this nonsense is that gun control will neither prevent evil but will instead make regular folks like me an outlaw and by abstraction evil.

I am not one to parrot the chest thumping bravado of others but as the former head of the NRA Charleton Heston famously said, "from my cold dead hands." I will not give up my right to own and shoot a gun, buy a gun, buy accessories or ammo. I will not give up my right to protect myself with a gun or derive pleasure from shooting my guns. I will, God forbid, come to your aid with a gun in hand if need be to confront evil folks who don't care about the law or give two shakes about you.

Finally, I recognize that I have been reeled into a gun control conversation but let us remember this is about one person who inflicted evil on the most innocent among us. The conversation should go forward with prevention and protection as the paramount principles to be discussed and not control of things or people.

Kev,

Its never been about "confronting evil", stopping the violence, mental health funding, hunting/sports, public safety, "common sense solutions", etc. Mentally ill people, and convicted murderers have been let loose for a greater purpose than a "lack of funding". You are seeing the manifestation of an incredibly sophisticated and varied strategy of disarming the general population. Politics, religion, philosophy, ideology, materialism, conservationism, and every other nano-focused "ism" and "ology" are tools used as weapons to tear assunder unity of the citizenry... United we stand, divided we fall. We have been divided for far too long, and now its time to fall.

Republicans, Democrats, Progessives, Conservatives... All labels, all a rouse. When this country has finished it's "transformation" ALL of us will get to enjoy being a brick in the wall, you will no longer be allowed to be an individual, you will be a part of the collective... or you will be "removed".

You wanted government run health care?
... You got it.

You wanted the rich to pay more?
... You got it.

You wanted this country to be brought down to be equal with all others?
... You got it.

You want the trains to run on time?
... You got it.

You want the government to feed and house everyone?
... You got it.

You want equal outcomes for everyone regardless of effort and talent?
... You got it.

You want "social justice?
...You got it.


The problem is, all the above is bait... tasty bait. Over 50% bit into it, now you're getting reeled in. The uptopia they kept promising you will never materialize. The best you can hope for is you and yours won't be among the 10-15% in the population "reduction" that historically happens when the general populace is disarmed. You say you won't give up your 2A rights, what does that mean? Will you take up arms against a tyrannical government? Are you going to stamp your foot and use sarcasm to beat back the government thugs?

The Constitution IS just a piece of paper, it holds no power in and of itself. Its not a magical document that somehow keeps the goverment at bay. Its merely a declaration of unalienable HUMAN RIGHTS, and is a general roadmap for a nation of people to remain free. Like all maps however, if you don't make the effort to use it you'll still be lost in the wilderness.

Freedom of speech will go... Thank gawd, no more Chris Mathews and friends!

Freedom from random search and seizures will go... Enjoy midnight "health and welfare" inspections.

Private property rights will go... You may be forced to accept "squatters" into your home, because at least 4 people can sleep in one room.

You may be deemed "unprofitable" for an organ transplant, or a critical surgical proceedure, because you're to old to warrant the expense to the public in your precious crown-jewel that is "Obama-Care".

REJOICE, FOR YOUR DELIVERER HAS BEEN RE-ELECTED!

Dark days are coming, you've suckered, you have choices to make... sooner rather than later.

As for me, I choose to be a Citizen standing on his feet, NOT a subject on his knees.


I will NOT comply.

 

[RVTECH]

I'll admit I voted for Romney because, quite frankly, he was the only Republican choice and he did say his first order of business was to repeal Obamacare. Also this may sound really stupid but I often would ask people who would you rather have as you next door neighbors, Ann & Mitt or Barack & Michelle?

 

[Mrand55]

The problem is the right is not who are going to make the difference. The democrats already know conservatives aren't going to vote for them so they care about their opinions. The people that can make a difference are democrats and the left that are pro 2nd amendment and make their voice heard. Now the amount of them that are actually pro 2A and aren't willing to compromise for "common sense" gun control might be very few but they're the voices that need to stand up with the right to get the point across. If enough people are willing to compromise the guns that they don't use or have interest in, they will come after yours next.

 

[MikeE]

Kev,


As for me, I choose to be a Citizen standing on his feet, NOT a subject on his knees.


I will NOT comply.

With all due respect, brother, but are you sure you're not just being a citizen ducking a political fight you could win?
Here is an interesting read, by Glen Greenwald, a Constitutional lawyer, writer for Salon, and relentless opponent of Obama from the left.
GOP and Feinstein Join to Fulfill Obama's Demand for Renewed Warrantless Eavesdropping | Common Dreams

It's not about AWB, but about the other aspect of Diane Feinstein - opponent of our other civil liberties. Seems like she walked all over our own Ron Wyden last week. So here is one potential split. I can think of a few ways to play that, and maybe others have ideas. A focus on Wyden could be productive if done right.

 

[Stomper]

With all due respect, brother, but are you sure you're not just being a citizen ducking a political fight you could win?
Here is an interesting read, by Glen Greenwald, a Constitutional lawyer, writer for Salon, and relentless opponent of Obama from the left.
GOP and Feinstein Join to Fulfill Obama's Demand for Renewed Warrantless Eavesdropping | Common Dreams

It's not about AWB, but about the other aspect of Diane Feinstein - opponent of our other civil liberties. Seems like she walked all over our own Ron Wyden last week. So here is one potential split. I can think of a few ways to play that, and maybe others have ideas. A focus on Wyden could be productive if done right.

I hear ya, and hell no I'm not ducking the political fight. I have sent letters to every single Oregon State Legislator (sans Burdick), I'm working on our Federal folks next.

Our founding fathers threw themselves at ol' King George and tried to reason with him. Every available civilized avenue must be exhausted before more "visceral" means are escalted. Warfare has left a bitter taste in my mouth (and soul), I don't relish another sampling anytime soon.

 

[Kevatc]

So, do you right-wingers want to cry to your mommies about Obama, or do you want to think creatively about how to defeat an AWB? The choice is yours.
The coalition that the administration needs can be split and beaten. DiFi is not popular on the left. She just led a nasty beat down in the Senate on a bipartisan effort to amend the the Patriot Act to protect the 4th amendment . Her AWB exempts private military contractors. Her husband is a big lobbyist for the defense industry. These points can be used to give liberal AWB supporters doubt.
But first, there has to be an alternative we can offer to address the violence that has shaken people up. The NRA's proposal might seem reasonable to gun people, but trust me, it looks crazy to the uninitiated. Talking about guns and gun rights is a sure way to lose the fight, because gun owners with semi automatics are a small minority. Plus, what people really care about is Harm Reduction.
If we could get pro-A2 muscle behind a serious proposal to increase federal support for mental health care, it would really shake up the debate. Then potential liberal AWB supporters would be faced with a choice: achieve a long-hoped for goal of improving one of the most underfunded aspects of health care, with a guaranteed benefit to millions, or spend political capital on a divisive effort that has already been tried and failed.
Unfortunately, so many A2 supporters are into right wing political correctness and lack the flexibility to think outside the box (the same box that served up a big portion of electoral FAIL in November).

Yep. Nail meet hammer.

I don't care how bad anyone disliked Romney. He opposed Obamas AWB wet dream during the debates. We all know politicians lie, but unless you are a mind reader there are times when you have to weigh what they say.

I believe in my heart of hearts that had Romney faced the Sandy Hook scenario he would also cave to the anti-gun pressures.

Kev,

Its never been about "confronting evil", stopping the violence, mental health funding, hunting/sports, public safety, "common sense solutions", etc. Mentally ill people, and convicted murderers have been let loose for a greater purpose than a "lack of funding". You are seeing the manifestation of an incredibly sophisticated and varied strategy of disarming the general population. Politics, religion, philosophy, ideology, materialism, conservationism, and every other nano-focused "ism" and "ology" are tools used as weapons to tear assunder unity of the citizenry...

Sorry, but I just can't buy into the conspiratorial paranoia that has become right-wing thinking. Are there legitimate policy differences between left and right? YOU BET. Is it some the "manifestation of an incredibly sophisticated and varied strategy of disarming the general population?" No. You are giving way too much credit to too many folks.

Also this may sound really stupid but I often would ask people who would you rather have as you next door neighbors, Ann & Mitt or Barack & Michelle?

Well duh!!!!!!! The Obama's. At least they drink beer. Unless Romney is a Mike Crapo type of Mormon.

 

[Stomper]

Sorry, but I just can't buy into the conspiratorial paranoia that has become right-wing thinking. Are there legitimate policy differences between left and right? YOU BET. Is it some the "manifestation of an incredibly sophisticated and varied strategy of disarming the general population?" No. You are giving way too much credit to too many folks.

Well that's fine, you just keep on a venting on your facebook account then. BTW- Did you catch the other thread on DiFi slamming Sens. Waldon, Merkley, and Paul in order to ram-rod the renewal of the warrantless wire-tapping legislation that was originally drafted by Richy Chenney? Now its suddenly A-OK with the "left" to promulgate Geo. W's fascist policies against our civil rights under the 4A... but that would be giving too many too much credit... Hmmm?

 

[ocarolan]

BTW- Did you catch the other thread on DiFi slamming Sens. Waldon, Merkley, and Paul in order to ram-rod the renewal of the warrantless wire-tapping legislation that was originally drafted by Richy Chenney?

Folks - CALL Merkley and Wyden's office and ask to speak with a staff member. Applaud them for supporting civil liberties, and ask them to oppose Feinstein's other restrictive bill:

Jeff Merkley
(202) 224-3753

Ron Wyden
(541) 431-0229

I assume Walden is already on our side, but just in case, call him too:

Greg Walden
541-776-4646


I want to pass on RIGHTS to my children. Not just some crusty 30-round mags.

 

[Stomper]

I always wondered how the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and Kim "ping-pong" Il, Mousolini, and others obtained power

I just hit me this morning:

Too many gave too little credit to too few... for too long.


Reap the wind, beatches.