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Oakland, CA: Injunction bans gun possession

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by chemist, May 27, 2010.

  1. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/27/BA6K1DLLF4.DTL

    An Alameda County judge signaled Thursday that he will approve Oakland's first gang injunction, a legal order that would prohibit 15 alleged gang members from gathering in a neighborhood that police say is overrun by violence.

    Judge Robert Freedman told attorneys at a Superior Court hearing that the city had met its threshold for proving that the named defendants were affiliated with gangs in North Oakland, and that he was satisfied with the process the city is proposing to determine whether the injunction is effective. He did not say when he would issue a final ruling.

    Deputy City Attorney Rocio Fierro said the injunction would create a "safety zone" in a 100-square-block area near the city's borders with Emeryville and Berkeley. It would ban the 15 alleged gang members from associating with each other, loitering or possessing guns, and would impose a curfew on them of 10 p.m. to 5 a.m.

    City Attorney John Russo asked for the injunction in February in response to what he said was a dramatic spike in gang violence in the past three years.

    "We are not asking these people to go jail," Fierro said, responding to accusations from defense attorneys that the injunction infringed on the defendants' right to freely assemble and move within their own neighborhood. "We are asking them to stop their behavior."

    At least two of the alleged gang members were at the hearing in Oakland, seated just a few feet from the police officers who could eventually serve them with legal orders that would prevent them from associating.

    Yancie Young, who the city says is a member of North Side Oakland, or NSO, said through his attorney that the injunction would make it difficult for him to continue on his career path as a carpenter's apprentice.

    Young said he would instantly violate the injunction if he carried his tool belt and cans of spray paint, which would be forbidden items because they could be used to create gang graffiti. Young lives within the proposed injunction zone, in a home he inherited from his recently deceased father, he said, and cares for his younger brother who is confined to a wheelchair.

    Michael Haddad, who represents Young, said the city's legal remedy was an unconstitutional approach to fighting crime.

    "The answer to Oakland's crime problems isn't injunctions," Haddad said outside the courtroom with his client at his side. "The answer to crime is professional and lawful policing."

    The injunction would be the first time Oakland has used a tool more familiar in Los Angeles and San Francisco. Russo, however, has said he will seek as many as a dozen more legal orders to keep gang members from associating.

    The proposed injunction gained traction last year when Desiree Davis, 17, a senior at Oakland Technical High School, was shot and killed in the area. According to the city attorney's office, seven homicides in North Oakland last year could be traced to gang activity.

    The city says gangs including North Side Oakland, Gaskill Maniacs, Bushrod Cold Gunnaz 59 and ASAP/FT are active in North Oakland. The gangs are at war with rivals from West Oakland and south Berkeley, police say.

    Roy Johnson, 29, another alleged North Side Oakland member named in the proposed injunction, said he knew only two people on the list, one of whom is his brother-in-law.

    Johnson said he was on probation for marijuana possession, but denied he was a gang member.

    "They say I'm in a gang because of this," he said, pointing to an NSO tattoo on his inner left forearm. "It's my neighborhood. And now they want to treat me like a kid and keep me in my house."

    E-mail Justin Berton at jberton@sfchronicle.com.







    Presumably these alleged gang members are prohibited by injunction because they're not convicted felons, and therefore haven't lost their right to possess firearms.

    I sympathize with the officials who are dealing with horrific circumstances in Oakland, but this is just plain wrong. I want to see the gang members taken out of circulation - permanently - as much as the next guy, but you can't make up new ad hoc constitutional limitations simply for the convenience of the police.

    This stuff scares the crap outta me. Any prosecutor who can "satisfy" any judge can arbitrarily restrict our rights to - well, take your pick - Amendments !, 2, & 4, for starters. I never thought that I'd find myself on the same side as the "Bushrod Cold Gunnaz 59." But there it is.

    Okay, ACLU, we need you now!
     
  2. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    If the law abiding citizens of Oakland were allowed to carry guns to protect themselves with, the injunction would be unnecessary.
     
  3. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    The whole rathole is a mess of junkies and crack whores. Arming them doesn't solve anything, because we're not talking about innocent victims defending themselves. You can't compel adults to act responsibly.
     
  4. flinch444

    flinch444 N. Idaho New Member

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    You kids go to your rooms untill you can play nice!

    Legislating morality has worked so well in the past, lets try it again, maybe it will work this time?
     
  5. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I don't care one way or the other about this injunction. It is beyond arrogant for judge Freeman to believe these gang members will behave under his order, when they have ignored their communities, the legislature, the DA's office and the police dept.'s efforts to stop the insane violence and lawlessness.
    So now they are supposed to obey the judge or,... What? They'll be arrested?

    I suggest Kalifornia build large high fences with razor wire atop them around areas like this one, let the adults, teens without gang tattoos and small children out, and keep the gang-bangers in. In short order they will eliminate the problem,... Each other.

    Problem solved
     
  6. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    The progressives will do this with gangs today to set a legal precedent. Tomorrow it will be political and against the tea party people. We all either have rights or we don't. Better figure when you deny others their rights then yours will go next. The constitutions second amendment didn't leave any American out that follows the law.

    jj
     
  7. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    While I have no sympathy for the gang bangers, this is so blatantly unconstitutional it will never stand.
     
  8. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    There was a story on the radio last night about LA's exclusion zone on skid row. The police prepare a list of people ("known" gang bangers and drug dealers) who can't be there under threat of arrest and incarceration for up to 6 months. But I don't know how that can be justified. Cincinnati tried that in the late 1990s, and its ordinance was ruled unconstitutional. There's a blurb about it here: http://www.dpanetwork.com/news/06_12_03cincinnati.cfm

    I think a lot of times laws are passed with full knowledge that they're unconstitutional. It's symbolism, born of frustration, and makes political points with sympathetic voters for its proponents. The state declarations regarding the application of federal gun laws is like that too. The Commerce Clause argument on which those declarations are based was pretty well debunked by the Supreme Court in 2005 in Gonzalez v. Raich, in which the question was federal authority to criminalize possession of marijuana grown exclusively within California. The Supreme Court said no, Congress can regulate purely intra-state manufacture and sale of something if there is a risk that intra-state sales could result in interstate sales of the product. If that principle applies to California-grown pot, it applies to Wyoming-made pistols. It's symbolic only, and I think the people in these states know it. Notice that none are openly producing and selling selective-fire weapons to test the law. FFLs in those states aren't declining to run background checks on intra-state-produced firearms either.

    The difference with these exclusion zones is that this symbolism is going to put people in jail.
     
  9. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    I have a friend who moved to Oakland because she couldn't afford San Francisco, and I wouldn't want to see the local government give up on her neighborhood and "build large high fences with razor wire atop them."

    The answer is effective policing, because the gangstas are already criminals - they simply need to be caught at it and convicted under current law. Giving them more rules to ignore (and the rest of us more rules to struggle against) is no solution. But how could it even get this far?

    There's so much tort abuse in this country by big players like Monsanto, that it's a natural outcome for the government to get into the same business that they see as so successful. Who can tolerate the time and expense to litigate a city that keeps a stable of paid lawyer/hitmen?

    There's no word to my knowledge for this tactic, passing illegal laws in the belief that challenging them is too slow and costly for most parties, but the closest I can come is barratry.

    We already have a two-tier medical system in this country, and we're well on the way to a two-tier legal system as well. Guess which tier 90+% of us fall into?
     
  10. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Fixed.
     
  11. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Kaliforniska ceased to be part of the US 50 years ago. They just fake it now. Someone forgot to tow it to Indonesia.
    Just hoping that St Andreas gets that job done.
     
  12. PMKN_PI

    PMKN_PI Milwaukie, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    X2

    Heres to Krapifornia and most of its moronic animals for residents sliding into the sea.
     
  13. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    Over the last 50 years, California's been the biggest engine for technological and economic growth in the entire world, not to mention the U.S.
     
  14. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    The state (not worthy) is nearly bankrupt, the technology they have developed has all but been exported to Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, the UK and India and Mexico.
    It has benefitted their economy while destroying ours.
    They have all but stomped out the US Constitution there, becoming the most restrictive on firearms next to DC in the nation and they are overrun with illegals and have done nothing to stop the influx, even worse they facillitate them. They breed far left social/communists in their universities, support far left propaganda in much of their entertainment industry with left leaning movie productions. Their liberal policies on drugs are creating the lowest moral climate in the nation. A state full of swingers, sex clubs, pot stores, and anti christains is what is left of the vast part of Kalifornuska. Their deteriorated moral fabric is bleeding over to neighboring states to top it all off. If I woke up tomorrow and the new Pacific coast was Arizona, Nevada and the southern line of Oregon, I would hold one huge party.
     
  15. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think so too.
     
  16. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    good post!
     
  17. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    True, but I would argue it goes back further than that, at least to WWII and the aerospace and defense industries. The transcontinental railroad started in Sacramento, headed east. Oregon would not have been settled so quickly (or become so prosperous) if it hadn't been for the gold rush. It's also been the most culturally significant part of the US (and therefore the world) in the past 75 years. Plus, there's no denying that it has some of the most spectacular natural spaces in the world.

    Definitely has more than its share of weirdness. But there's a bit of that around here too..... And besides, it's the state that gave us John Wayne, Merle Haggard, Buck Owens, and Ronald Reagan.
     
  18. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    The only good things to come out of that state in the last 50 years. <G>
    Since the late 50's it has become a cesspool as a state.

    I had met John Wayne while stationed there, and on pass in LA What you saw was what you got. One of the last real Americans to come out of that place.