NW Gun Law Group.

[pdxcat]

Greetings,
I am considering setting up a Trust for a couple of NFA devices I plan to purchase in the next few months.
I have done some reading already, and I am leaning towards a trust vs individual route in order to e file as soon as possible. My dealer already has one of the items I wish to purchase in stock.

I was wondering if other forum members have first hand experience with NW Gun Law and specifically their bronze trust for OR.

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows how difficult it is to change address with the ATF while waiting for a stamp (as I might buy a house before the process is complete. I am sure the address can be amended for the trust itself, I am wondering specifically about dealing with changing address with ATF for a pending application.

Thanks.

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[PDXSparky]

I was wondering if other forum members have first hand experience with NW Gun Law and specifically their bronze trust for OR.

I have their bronze trust. I've received 3 stamps so far. I did edit it slightly. I didn't like the length of the trust name they gave it, so I changed it to something much shorter: xxx NFA Trust. If I ever do a form 1, then I'll have to engrave the trust name, which is why shorter is better.

Did you want to know anything specific about it?

 

[pdxcat]

Thank you for your reply! Mainly I am trying to figure out if their trust layout works well enough. It seems to be a very good deal, offering more than quicken or other cheap options. The fact that you got three stamps approved is encouraging. I think I will try them out. I have a can waiting at the dealer and I would like to send paperwork as soon as possible. Thanks again.

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[lmspdx]

Two stamps approved so far with mine. I see you're from Oregon, so make sure to read through the Trust thoroughly when you get it. They may have fixed it by now, but there were some wording issues with my initial version.

 

[pdxcat]

Thank you. I will read it carefully, even though I am not sure I would be able to spot issues in the first place, unless those are grammatical mistakes. I also hope to e file and maybe get the stamps in a few months compared to one year. I also read online that it is a good idea to NOT pay for the items with funds from your personal account, but I am not sure if that would truly be an issue I am contemplating opening an account for the trust.

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[Dogfish]

Silver Washington version. Worked for three of my cans.

 

[railhead]

Just starting the process with a bronze trust for a can. Will see how it goes. Bob

 

[PDXSparky]

I also read online that it is a good idea to NOT pay for the items with funds from your personal account.

That's just complete silliness. Without a doubt you should use your personal checking account to pay for the stamp so you can tell when it is cashed. You can't do that with a money order.

 

[Plinker300]

Can the bronze trust be modified? Can I add and/or remove trustees in the future? Any complaints other than the wording issues mentioned by lmspdx? Does anyone have a separate bank account in the name of the trust for purchases?

 

[the puma]

Like PDXsparky, I got the bronze trust and changed the name to something I liked. It was $97 well spent.

 

[pdxcat]

Thank you all for the replies. I plan to set up my trust asap and go pay for my new gear next week. I am excited to finally get a can. Hopefully I won't have too long if I e-file.

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[Modeler]

That's just complete silliness. Without a doubt you should use your personal checking account to pay for the stamp so you can tell when it is cashed. You can't do that with a money order.

Open a checking account in the name of the trust and use checks from that account to pay for the stamp.

 

[coctailer]

I use Northwest Gun Law Group all the time. They are top notch!!

I even have one of their trusts for myself.

 

[ThePhonMan]

Regarding how you pay for things acquired by your trust...

There's a concept used by certain government agencies (IRS, DOJ and Treasury in particular) known as "piercing the corporate veil". Once they have decided they want to target you, the usual technique is to determine if "comingling of funds" has occurred. The standard they use is: Did you use any personal funds, accounts, etc. for corporate expenses or business? OR Did you use any corporate funds, accounts, etc. for personal expenses or business. If you can answer yes to either question they can call your legal vehicle (Corporation, LLC, Partnership, Trust, etc.) into question. This provides them with an opportunity to remove any protections afforded by the legal vehicle you used to do business by claiming it is not valid and its creation was only intended as some kind of tax or legal dodge. Defending yourself is intended to be costly so you'll give up and take your punishment like a good boy (deserved or not).

I'm not sure this approach has ever been used against any NFA trusts to date but with the current administration I wouldn't put it past them. Once the G-men decide they want to go after you they usually don't care how legitimate the process is they use, as long as they get what they want; you. And this opportunity will only get worse when people start using personal debit/credit cards to pay the tax stamp fees for e-filed trust applications. A paranoid person might ask if this setup is an intended or unintended consequence of the new e-file process?

You have two choices to avoid this to the best of your ability:
1) As Modeler stated above, open an account in the Trust name and use it ONLY for trust business. Additionally, make all deposits into that account using cash so your funding process is at least one step removed from direct attachment to your personal accounts.
2) Use cash to acquire cashier's checks from your bank to cover Trust expenses (tax stamp, suppressors, SBRs, etc.). You can inquire when they have been cashed with a simple phone call to the bank (or even walk in and ask them to check for you). Obviously you can't e-file if you use this process.

I'm not that paranoid (or a lawyer) and the value of this advice is directly proportional to how much you have just paid for it so if you disagree feel free to ignore me.

 

[pdxcat]

I think ThePhonMan raises a very good point. It seems like most people with trusts that e-file simply pay with funds from personal accounts.
That appears to be a non issue with the ATF. On the other hand it would not hurt to have a simple checking account for the trust and maybe get a card for it, in order to be able to e-file.

Maybe I am more paranoid than I should be simply because I am new to the NFA game, but I do not see a clear disadvantage in having a dedicated account.

This is a very interesting aspect of choosing a trust vs individual route.

 

[BlindedByScience]

WA resident, Bronze Trust, three stamps, no problems. Easy to recommend.

 

[pdxcat]

I have just called my credit union. I can open a checking account for the trust for free with a minimum deposit of 50 dollars. With 4 bucks I can also order a visa debit card, and use that to pay for the can and the stamp when I e-file. Seems like a good deal to be, maybe unnecessarily paranoid, but I really cannot see a downside to it, other than having to wait until I get the debit card to purchase my can.

 

[Modeler]

ThePhonMan explained exactly why I have a checking account for the trust and pay for everything (items and tax stamps) out of that checking account.

 

[pdxcat]

My instinct is that having a separate account is not a bad idea at all.

Other folks seem to think that as a trustee you are legally allowed to pay with your personal funds for items that are going to be added to the trust and all related taxes.

I also wonder if considering the fact that all money deposited into the NFA account initially comes from me anyway has any importance.

Good discussion.

 

[spectra]

Well like I said in the pm there are bigger fish out there. If you are worried about the account by all means get a card with the trusts name on it. I my self think it is a good idea if you are worried. As PFM posted earlier only use cash to put into the account that way it is not traced back to you. If I go to my bank and drop a few notes into the box they never ask for a name. If you are getting a card you can even use the ATM to make the deposit.