NRA Instructor Training

[Misterbill]

Why do you want to take NRA instructor's classes?

NRA instructors classes give you a BASE level of understanding of the curriculum that they teach. But more to the point, they teach the average person a TON about teaching itself.

Most solid shooters I know are crap at teaching others. there's a lot to know, from diagnosing deficient points in technique to how to talk to little old ladies vs. the gung-ho idiot young guys.

A good training counselor can make a WORLD of difference in your initial teaching skills. -The difference between a waste of time and a solid instructional, informative and enjoyable course.

I've been teaching firearms for years now and I STILL rely on a few of the things I learned in my NRA instructors course. I've been training people in various things for 30 years and I'm not tooting my own horn by admitting that I'm damn good at it. Hundreds of students will attest to that fact.

But TEACHING firearms is it's very own animal. And the NRA trainer's courses are a solid introduction on how to teach shooting.

It's not enough to know how to DO it. You have to be able to communicate that information to others, many of whom will have vastly different ideas about guns than you do at the start of the course.

I consider my own personal great successes to be the cases where I've turned someone terrified of guns into someone who sees them as nothing more than a useful tool and enjoyed the exposure.

 

[Misterbill]

While I think safety training is a good idea for an individual to choose, I don't agree that there should be a legal requirement for it, because there are many ways other than going to a credentialed instructor to learn the same skills. Generally when a credential is legally required, it is not for the benefit of the trainee or the general public, but to limit competition and benefit the trainer's industry.

I am adamantly opposed to any legal requirement for firearms training for citizens. This reflects, in my experience, the opinion of most trainers.
While mandatory training might be wonderful for my income, it would be HORRIBLE for our rights.

I don't think you're going to find many trainers who feel differently.

 

[Misterbill]

I took my CCW class about a month ago. The guy was NRA certified. That being said, that class consisted of 2 45 minute videos and told us that if we had any questions on firearms laws we should refer to a web site although he couldn't remember what the website was. Afterwards he printed out our cards and sent us on our way. Kind of wondering if there isn't something wrong with this picture.

Just so you know, you got ripped off, because that doesn't even come CLOSE to the NRA basic pistol guidelines, forget any other course. Please report your experience to the NRA. If you got sold NRA basic pistol and what you report is all you got, you got ripped off big time.

 

[Thebastidge]

I agree he got ripped off.

Oregon law doesn't require an NRA-branded class or NRA curriculum. It merely requires that it be taught by an NRA-certified instructor and have a componennt of handgun safety.

I teach a 2 hour class that is non-NRA strictly for Oregon CHL for folks who have a time and money budget. I make sure they understand it is not an NRA class even while they know I am an NRA instructor.

I also give them more than the minimum required by law in that class.

I recently took a class from an NRA Training counselour that I was pretty disappointed with (not an NRA class) as I felt he kinda mailed it in. I'll not name names until I have more examples from that person, but there is definitely a difference between someone who is trying to provide a quality product and someone who is just in it to do the minimum. My training program is on the upswing as I develop my staff instructors, and we train people with our own limits in mind. We won't claim to train somebody beyond our own level of competence. At a minimum, we verify all information we give out to the best of our ability, vetting it for accuracy and mistakes, and staying humble about it. Less information is better than wrong information (and this is part of my complaint about the recent class- some seemingly minor but factually incorrect things, and a fgew things presented as fact that are actually opinion. I make sure I differentiate between fact and my opinion, even when I hold my opinion very strongly.)

I have more folks who will be attending the NRA RTBAV instructor course as soon as they're done re-vamping it. I'm spreading our current instructor course dollars amongst multiple NRA training counselours to get different perspective, and working towards becoming a TC myself, although I will still send my instructors to other TCs for diversity after I do so.

And we've sought out other sources of instructor development besides the NRA. We've recently added civilian pepper spray training to our course offerings. The Sabre Red Instuctor course being one, and FEMA's Basic Instructional Skills online course being another. We're getting instructors certified under the Emergency First Response CPR/First Aid program as well as Red Cross, again for diversity of experience. I have some friends and acquaintences in Vancouver PD's training department who are critiquing our instructor development, and we also draw on Air Foirce, Army, and Navy experience in training to bring those perspectives.

 

[nwbobber]

The CCW class I took, I'm sure went above and beyond what Oregon requires. On the other hand, after witnessing several folks who had never actually handled a firearm go through the shooting portion of my class, I have to say that any instructor who certifies he has trained someone in handgun safety, and does not supervise those students as they fire their weapons, is taking a heck of a risk with their reputation as an instructor. When that pistol barks, and jumps in their hand, inexperienced people do strange things. When they limp wrist their pistol and it jams, are they going to remember to get their finger off the trigger, not sweep bystanders, etc.. While I agree this should not be a legal requirement, my instructor believed that a higher level of instruction was necessary, and provided what he thought was prudent. I wish more instructors thought like that.

 

[mignuc]

I am R. Theron Cammer, mentioned earlier. I am one of those (apparently) rare NRA Training Counselors who does feel that firearms training should be mandatory, including for current owners. WAIT!!!, before you put me in the stocks! There is a way that it could be done that would also ensure our 2nd Amendment rights. PLEASE keep reading.
What I propose is that the purchase of any firearm from anyone require sufficient training (from any source that has been evaluated and is deemed adequate, not just the NRA's) to ensure that the person does know how to actually use and fire a gun safely. I, of course, am prejudiced toward the NRA's approach but acknowledge that there are many other good and even better programs out there. PLEASE keep reading!
My proposal is to create a state-wide (and eventually nation-wide) training organization that is an independent corporation.
How the program might work is that the corporation would keep track of and approve instructors/courses that qualify. The government would not have access to this data bank. It might even need to be located out of country so that U.S. subpoenas for information would be futile.
People would voluntarily take the training and be issued a completion card by the instructor that would be shown when purchasing a firearm, showing that they have had adequate firearms training. This would enable them to purchase (any gun).
Some variant of this could make PEOPLE who have guns much safer and yet would not allow the govenment to keep track of who owns guns. Many people would probably be interested in taking the training who never do buy guns.
Comments?

 

[Botte Hork]

Comments?

Yes!

No matter how noble your intentions and original plans is, it'll create a slippery slope for more regulation and government involvement. Because ultimately: If you legislate that there is a training mandate before purchase, there will always be some form of govt. control on either the training platform or at least the 'keeping track of'. That means the data bank you speak of will have some govt influence. And offshoring the data? Many people, for good reason, are already not too happy about govt having a lot of info, so why would anyone want to keep this data offshored, under someone's or some organisation's 'protection' where we can only hope that nothing bad will happen, as abuse of said info is, as you mentioned, not punishable due to the same offshoring. Also: any internet accessed data will be visible to our friends with their new HQ in Utah (hello boys!).

To my best knowledge, one can even buy a car without a driver's license. One just can't drive it. Why would a constitutionally protected right be further licensed out?

Also, training costs time and money, some of which are not equally available in convenient amounts at the moment such training might occur.




@thebastidge: Say I'm interested in one of your training classes, how would I go about finding out about it? Your website's event & classes page is awfully empty until the end of the year. I'd suggest to keep that page up to date, or just remove it.

 

[SBC97281]

My proposal is to create a state-wide (and eventually nation-wide) training organization that is an independent corporation.
Comments?

I feel much more comfortable with my personal policy: I happily and regularly take new shooters or qualified curious non shooters I meet to the range and go over the basics of firearms safety with them. This includes showing them how to get their shots on paper and working through the mechanics of as many different safe scenarios as appropriate and time permits.

I believe I am a safe shooter who wants to continue the traditions I value. I have had several classes myself and learned something in all of them. Those classes have taught me that at after a certain level I must refer those interested in more to more qualified instructors than myself.

Certification may indicate a good instructor and it sadly also may not. I try to make sure those who learn from me also learn the very important skills of patience and questioning as the number of people who claim knowledge of firearms is far greater than then number who actually have the skills and the ability or willingness to teach.

 

[RBid]

When Mignuc replied to this thread, it had been asleep for almost two years.

While there may be good discussion to be had, people may want to consider the time stamps on the posts they reply to or quote. The person they are responding to may have left the building long ago.

 

[Thebastidge]

We're offering an NRA Basic Pistol course coming up Aug 24th in Vancouver at 9:00 am.

https://www.facebook.com/SouthwestWashingtonSurplus/events#!/events/1374226529468324/

<broken link removed>

The classroom is at Southwest Washington Surplus, in the warehouse spaces at Andresen Plaza, and we'll reconvene to the range after lunch.

 

[mignuc]

Yes!

No matter how noble your intentions and original plans is, it'll create a slippery slope for more regulation and government involvement. Because ultimately: If you legislate that there is a training mandate before purchase, there will always be some form of govt. control on either the training platform or at least the 'keeping track of'. That means the data bank you speak of will have some govt influence. And offshoring the data? Many people, for good reason, are already not too happy about govt having a lot of info, so why would anyone want to keep this data offshored, under someone's or some organisation's 'protection' where we can only hope that nothing bad will happen, as abuse of said info is, as you mentioned, not punishable due to the same offshoring. Also: any internet accessed data will be visible to our friends with their new HQ in Utah (hello boys!).

To my best knowledge, one can even buy a car without a driver's license. One just can't drive it. Why would a constitutionally protected right be further licensed out?

Also, training costs time and money, some of which are not equally available in convenient amounts at the moment such training might occur.




@Thebastidge: Say I'm interested in one of your training classes, how would I go about finding out about it? Your website's event & classes page is awfully empty until the end of the year. I'd suggest to keep that page up to date, or just remove it.

Unfortunately, mostly due to time-pressure at the range I used for teaching, I have been shut out of the shooting range we used and there is no replacement available. Therefore, where I used to schedule about 12 courses a year, I haven't taught any course in the last 20 months. However, if you email me at [email protected], I may be able to set something up for you. I can still teach at the range, I just can't reserve it so that I can schedule a class very well. I also spent all of last summer working on my lawn. *&%$#((&&!!