NRA basic pistol course okay for concealed carry permit?

[Riot]

If you are going for a concealed carry permit you are talking about fighting with a gun, that means that the NRA Basic class, or any of their classes intended for non-LEO's have almost nothing to contribute.

The saying goes "buy once, cry once". If you don't take a decent defensive class you won't even understand what to practice let alone good situation specific techniques or have the legal and tactical knowledge that will help keep you alive and out of prison. So in the end you're wasting money on the initial class because it has nothing to do with what you want to learn, and then practice things that will probably not accomplish what you want.

The majority of non NRA instructors, civilian and LEO, fell that the NRA curriculum is stagnant and fails to address the demands for the current new wave of firearms owners and users. If you don't think things have change just look at how many people show up to bullseye high power matches or get hunting licences. Even worse it seems that the majority of NRA instructors fail to take any non NRA classes creating an insular feedback loop that perpetuates the problem.

The good classes I've taken had nothing to do with any NRA curriculum and we're now at the point that the NRA is chasing new trends in shooting. Making excuses for them does nothing but make it easier for them to stick with the stale old program.

I, too, am an NRA pistol instructor and I have to agree that the NRA minimum requirements for the basic pistol instruction are quite lacking in curriculum.

The NRA pistol classes are more focused on safety and competition than it is on self-defense or weapon proficiency. However, there are many NRA pistol instructors that don't just give the bare minimum requirements for the NRA certificate and offer "Concealed Carry Courses". Nevertheless, these courses differ from instructor to instructor.

My suggestion is to get instruction from a reputible class...there are many options available, even in Oregon. If you can't find one within your price range or area you can also call up any security company in your area to see if they offer civilian courses or if they know anyone that can. Many security companies contract out or maintain firearm instructors and I'm sure they can point you in the right direction

 

[scott_see]

Anything know anything about NRA Instructor Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course or NRA Instructor Basic Personal Protection Outside The Home Course?

 

[Dkin]

The best defensive class I have taken were from Mike Seeklander, he was the head of the revamped Air Mashals firearms program during the build up post 911. Gabe White is also a great instructor, really innovative with a good emphasis on knowing when you can go fast, need to go slow and when to get the hell out of dodge. Both will travel and offer free tuition to the person organizing the class and both really know good technique and can teach it.

Oregon Firearms Academy is a good basic start based on what the Oregon Department of Public Safety Standards and Training (police academy) teaches.

I hear good things about Roger's Shooting School and The Firearms Academy of Seattle but have not been to either of them.

http://pistol-training.com/ is a good resource to research various instructors and schools/classes. Lots of experienced people with lots of different backgrounds and a lot of reviews/after action reports.

Until you really start getting into the legal, moral and technical issues of what it means to fight with a gun you have no idea how much you don't know. And that can get you dead, in jail or bankrupt. So are a couple of classes too expensive to keep that from happening to you or a loved one? Every good class I take I get some new, smack me in the forehead with a 2x4, epiphany.

Sorry - I know this is a fairly old thread at this point, but wanted to chime in. Gabe White is an amazing instructor! I've taken the first of four classes (PST101/PST101A) that he teaches at Clackamas PSTC and plan to take the next two. I understand he is an instructor at OFA as well. I might check out what they offer to see if his classes there differ from the ones at PSTC. I would also note that he's extremely humble as he doesn't really offer much explanation as to what his various certifications, competition wins, etc. mean when he briefly goes down the list during his personal introduction at the start of class. A quick google search on his name and handle that he uses in forums (OrigamiAK) and I discovered how impressive his resume really is...check out his skills via his YouTube channel (OrigamiAK) as he records himself running various drills including FASTest, as well as his USPSA runs, etc.

I would definitley recommend Gabe and Clackamas PSTC to anyone in the greater Portland area.

Dave

 

[Garg]

Back in the day, when my wife and I first got our CHL's, we took the Maryland State police online training course, which was enough to satisfy the Clackamas County requirement. They didn't even question it. The very nice lady at the CHL department said to us, O sure, that's perfect, but I can tell you two don't need this anyways.

 

[PiratePast40]

And Floyd Prozonski is rubbing his hands together and smiling his big Grinch smile as he reads this thread. I can see it now: "even responsible gun owners agree that more training is required". You thought his requirements for reciprocity were BS a few weeks ago, just wait until his new bills next spring.

 

[PiratePast40]

To answer the OP's original question. From ORS 166.291:

(f)Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:

(A)Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency of another state if handgun safety was a component of the course;

(B)Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of the course;

(C)Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by law enforcement, community college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or a law enforcement agency if handgun safety was a component of the course;

(D)Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, reserve law enforcement officers or any other law enforcement officers if handgun safety was a component of the course;

(E)Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a handgun through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

(F)Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, unless the license has been revoked; or

(G)Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;

 

[scott_see]

To answer the OP's original question. From ORS 166.291:
(B)Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of the course;

Well, that definitely answers the question. Seems like they're pretty flexible. I'm not sure how OR sheriffs departments could even possibly scrutinize things more than they do. The logistics of that would be daunting. At any rate, it's nice to know my NRA Basic Pistol (which is mostly about safety) will suffice for getting a concealed carry permit.

Just out of curiosity, as far as marketing the course goes, which do you think is a stronger appeal?

1. Learning how to use handguns
2. Learning handgun safety
3. Getting something for a concealed carry permit

Seem like more advertising is all about the permit.

 

[Certaindeaf]

They weren't real impressed when I told them that I watched some Yosemite Sam cartoons back in the day.
lol

 

[etrain16]

They weren't real impressed when I told them that I watched some Yosemite Sam cartoons back in the day.
lol

Yosemite was an open carry advocate, I'm pretty sure he didn't bother with a CHL That might explain their animosity toward your trainer

 

[etrain16]

Sorry - I know this is a fairly old thread at this point, but wanted to chime in. Gabe White is an amazing instructor! I've taken the first of four classes (PST101/PST101A) that he teaches at Clackamas PSTC and plan to take the next two. I understand he is an instructor at OFA as well. I might check out what they offer to see if his classes there differ from the ones at PSTC. .

Dave

I've taken a defensive handgun course (DH1) at OFA and would highly recommend them. I didn't encounter Gabe, but the instructors there were all very professional, patient and well informed. Plus, you are shooting outdoors, you are moving, and I think you just have more options than in an indoor range. Definitely a thumbs up to OFA. I'm hoping to go back for DH2 next spring.

 

[revjen45]

I am certified in Basic Pistol and BPPITH. IMHO, Basic Pistol is just that, i.e. an introduction to the basics of safety and gun handling. Then you won't go into more advanced training as a complete ignoramus and will be more ready to learn how to apply the basics to self defence. I have been to Insights and FAS and can recommend them both.

 

[orygunmike]

Hello Monica Cowles .... I stumbled across this thread and saw you are familiar with FAS and also interested in Instructor Development Training ....
I am attending the following two courses:

Massad Ayoob is at FAS next week for a 5-day Instructor Dev course focusing on Use of Deadly Force Law

Mike Seeklander (mentioned in this thread by Lange) is offering his Firearms Instructor Development Course (FIDC) at Tri-County Gun Club in Sherwood, OR...Sept 21-25. If you want more info on the Seeklander class, send me a message and I'll provide more details.

Take care.

https://www.usccainstructors.com/us...USCCA_Instructor&sid=fb-oct11-2013-cert-class

I will be taking this course as soon as they head west a little more.... Right now I am an affiliate instructor, and this class is a superb foundational class. A solid foundation in Firearms Safety is so much more than 'how to shoota gun'....

 

[Monica Cowles]

Hello Monica Cowles .... I stumbled across this thread and saw you are familiar with FAS and also interested in Instructor Development Training ....
I am attending the following two courses:

Massad Ayoob is at FAS next week for a 5-day Instructor Dev course focusing on Use of Deadly Force Law

Mike Seeklander (mentioned in this thread by Lange) is offering his Firearms Instructor Development Course (FIDC) at Tri-County Gun Club in Sherwood, OR...Sept 21-25. If you want more info on the Seeklander class, send me a message and I'll provide more details.

Take care.

I'm totally jelly...
Would really love to attend one of Mas' courses! *sigh* someday.......
I've got too much on my plate right now to pursue training, but it is for sure a future venture.
Thanks for the info!!

 

[mcfoto]

Wow, when I clicked on this thread, I expected a simple "yes" would suffice. Of course, the OP has his answer that by taking the class, he will be armed (pun intended) with a piece of paper with the NRA logo and an instructors signature which the Sheriff will accept as proof of handgun proficiency. Now whether the 6 hour class with one hour of live fire will prepare him to be ready for a gun fight, no one in their right mind would agree.

I took the class before I even had a handgun! When I found I could get my CHL, I did it, even though I know I'm not in a position to safely be armed in public ... Yet. My reason for getting my card was strictly legal: if I'm stopped my the local's finest, I want the extra protection if my stuff isn't exactly where it's supposed to be. And if I am in a situation where I am armed, I want documentation about which side of the law I'm on.

The debate above indicates perhaps the need for two levels of handgun licensing; one for basic competency and another for ability to handle a real gun fight. But given the political bent of the majority on this forum, more government controls would not be popular.

 

[Lange22250]

Having experience with the Canadian licensing scheme I'd say that no one who under stands what happens when the government gets involved would want it.
You don't see issues in constitutional carry states so why should I have to get a permit.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

My other half and I use the NRA course as a basic starting point, then we add a whole lot of material from LFI 1 to the class to give the student more tools

Being ready for a gun fight is a very subjective thing, and nobody can say yeah or nay as to whether any individual can deal with a gun fight.

Even highly trained LE officers can fall apart when it's the real deal and not just training.

Mindset is the key to much of it.

If the individual is hard set against being a victim, then they have half the battle won.

This along with some sound tactics training and they have a fair chance of surviving the gun fight.

Surviving the aftermath is yet another story.

You can't train for the crooked unscrupulous prosecutor who hates guns and gun people, and will stop at nothing to screw you over.

The law abiding are far easier to prosecute than felons.

Remember, the hard core criminal is not afraid of you or your gun, and many are not even more than passively worried about dying.

Don't skimp on your training credentials just to save a couple bucks.

Get as much training as you can before you strap on the iron, you will be glad yo did.

I have seen the CCW class online offered for $20, and the person getting this is in far too many cases ill prepared to carry a weapon.

Stay safe