Washington Now... about transporting a Shockwave...

[The Nothing]

So, as I slipped into bed last night my brain had one of those "keep you up a lil longer" thoughts about Washington laws...

Now, I know it's completely forbidden to transport a loaded rifle or shotgun in your vehicle.
But...
Where does the Shockwave fit into that catagory?

It's not a shotgun or a rifle... perhaps it might be the best "truck gun" you could have in WA?

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[IronMonster]

Nope, In Washington your license allows you to carry a pistol concealed. Since it's not a pistol....

 

[The Nothing]

I'm not talking about concealed, but rather just carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle/ATV

 

[IronMonster]

My understanding is you cannot carry any loaded weapon in Washington except a pistol with a CPL

 

[IronMonster]

Loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle—Unlawful use or possession—Unlawful use of a loaded firearm—Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.320, or upon an off-road vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.365, if:
(a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, or upon an off-road vehicle, except as allowed by department rule; and
(b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway; or
(b) The person discharges a firearm from within a moving motor vehicle or from upon a moving off-road vehicle.
(3) Unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle or upon an off-road vehicle, and unlawful use of a loaded firearm are misdemeanors.
(4) This section does not apply if the person:
(a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;
(b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities; or
(c) Discharges the rifle or shotgun from upon a nonmoving motor vehicle, as long as the engine is turned off and the motor vehicle is not parked on or beside the maintained portion of a public road, except as authorized by the commission by rule. This subsection (4)(c) does not apply to off-road vehicles, which are unlawful to use for hunting under RCW 46.09.480, unless the person has a department permit issued under RCW 77.32.237.
(5) For purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a rifle or shotgun shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the rifle or shotgun.
[ 2014 c 48 § 18; 2012 c 176 § 28; 1999 c 258 § 7; 1998 c 190 § 28.]

 

[IronMonster]

Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm not talking about concealed, but rather just carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle/ATV

Did not stay in a Holiday Inn and not a Lawyer. So what "I" would do is treat it as a long gun. If anyone here in WA wants to test this they better have lots of cash. I would guess most LEO's if you are caught with it would treat it exactly like a long gun. So if you get on the wrong side of the law it would be up to you to pay to fight it. Far as I know law here (WA) has not changed or added anything. So hand gun loaded with permit, fine. Long gun loaded no. I would treat the shockwave as long gun until and unless more is added to the law here.

 

[Certaindeaf]

My understanding is you cannot carry any loaded weapon in Washington except a pistol with a CPL

This is because they are afraid of a Shaka Zulu wave..



betcha

 

[kott0n]

I had this same thought.

You just have it on a "pistol" lower. Then its a pistol right?

7.5" Pistol lower with a Law Tactical folding buffer tube setup with the shockwave on it.

Its a "pistol", right?

 

[rjmt]

I just picked up my Shockwave yesterday. In Washington state, it is considered a pistol, had to register it as a pistol.
the box even says its a pistol and can only be transferred in the state where the purchaser lives.
my FFL holder talked to the State about this. Washinton LEOs should know it's a pistol.
although in my circumstance, I live on property and no one but my wife cares if I carry it under my Carhartt or not
just have to unload it before I come in the house

RJMT

 

[Alexx1401]

I just picked up my Shockwave yesterday. In Washington state, it is considered a pistol, had to register it as a pistol.
the box even says its a pistol and can only be transferred in the state where the purchaser lives.
my FFL holder talked to the State about this. Washinton LEOs should know it's a pistol.
although in my circumstance, I live on property and no one but my wife cares if I carry it under my Carhartt or not
just have to unload it before I come in the house

RJMT

Before anyone takes this to the test I would wait to see it in writing from the State guys. If it can be indeed shown that WA has decided these are a handgun I will be looking at one a lot more fondly.

 

[sed]

Two kinds of "Shockwaves" that are popular right now:
- KAK Shockwave Blade - AR pistol brace
- Mossberg Shockwave - generic firearm...technically not a shotgun

Looks like people are replying with different "Shockwaves" in mind.

 

[The Heretic]

I just picked up my Shockwave yesterday. In Washington state, it is considered a pistol, had to register it as a pistol.
the box even says its a pistol and can only be transferred in the state where the purchaser lives.
my FFL holder talked to the State about this. Washinton LEOs should know it's a pistol.
although in my circumstance, I live on property and no one but my wife cares if I carry it under my Carhartt or not
just have to unload it before I come in the house

RJMT

Register?

There is no official registration of guns in WA state.

Before I act like a Shockwave is a "pistol" I would like to see the official rule/regulation WA state law cite that says that these guns are pistols.

If you are referring to the designation that gets sent into the state when you do a transfer, that does not necessarily count. It does not in Orygun.

It would actually be kind of kewl if that were true, especially if Orygun did this too, but last time I asked about that here, the answer was no for Orygun.

The point is that regardless of what the ATF says about them, state laws regarding carry will probably consider these to be a shotgun, even though technically the ATF says they are not.

 

[Alexx1401]

Two kinds of "Shockwaves" that are popular right now:
- KAK Shockwave Blade - AR pistol brace
- Mossberg Shockwave - generic firearm...technically not a shotgun

Looks like people are replying with different "Shockwaves" in mind.

I did not realize this. Well that should sure confuse hell out of things

 

[notazombie]

It'd be my luck to run afoul of some cop who assumed it was illegal and homemade and then get "subdued" within an inch of my life before my expensive lawyer ever got a chance to try and set things straight.

 

[Tomahawk67]

I don't live in Wa and I am definitely not a law dog , but if it has a barrel under 16" and no stock it's called a pistol or AOW

 

[Alexx1401]

I don't live in Wa and I am definitely not a law dog , but if it has a barrel under 16" and no stock it's called a pistol or AOW

Well on that I can say no, it's not here. You can buy the Shockwave shotguns here and the one Rem came out with. They are not an AOW (yet at least) and I highly doubt WA is going to let us use one as a pistol. If they do that I will have one on the short list just for that reason but I am not holding my breath for that to happen. When I first heard of the kit to make a Cruiser a 14" I thought surely they were never going to get away with it. The Site making the kit did have a printable page on the Federal law on these. It suggested you print it out and keep it with you in case some LEO decided it was an illegal shotgun. Then soon Mossberg and then Remington jumped into the market with these already done this way factory. I was kind of surprised the BATF did not not come out with a new rule saying no to these. So far they have not.

 

[Tomahawk67]

How does Washington define a rifle ? How does Washington define a pistol? Lastly how does Washington define an AOW?

 

[The Heretic]

How does Washington define a rifle ? How does Washington define a pistol? Lastly how does Washington define an AOW?

I am too lazy to google it and do that analysis (done this so may times before when these questions come up, I will let someone else find the cites this time) - but yes, exactly.

Generally, the state laws follow the federal laws - in general. But they don't get down into the nuances like the ATF does because they almost never have to. They pass the general laws and let the courts figure out the nuances. The courts sometimes have their own opinions and we get conflicting rulings. Those stand until someone notices the conflicts and challenges them and then the higher courts make a ruling and so on up the chain.

The state laws would probably consider these short barreled shotguns that the ATF says is neither a pistol nor a shotgun nor a rifle, a short barreled shotgun, but there we are, the state allows them to be sold and possessed too - for now.

I have been tempted, but unless there is some state ruling saying they are a handgun and therefore can be carried concealed I won't. Generally a bullpup rifle is often just as short (e.g., PS90) sometimes lighter, has more range and much more shootable IMO, so I will go with a bullpup instead.

As I said, if the PTB come out with an official policy/etc. allowing concealed carry, then I will reconsider my position. I won't hold my breath - I think they very much do NOT want to do this.

 

[The Heretic]

Q: Mossberg Shockwave Raptor - is it a pistol in OR now?