Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) Official Thread

[leadcounsel]

The lab which is a few hundred feet from the seafood market is the Wuhan Center for Disease Control. It is not even a BSL-4 facility. What evidence do you have that is is a biowarfare lab?

Cotton has said he thinks the Chinese are not being fully forthcoming. He has not said he thinks the virus is a bioweapon. You keep saying 2+2=5.

No, but they do have bat colonies there and they do isolate viruses from them for research purposes and infective material could have escaped.

Did coronavirus originate in Chinese government laboratory?

A new bombshell paper from the Beijing-sponsored South China University of Technology says that the Wuhan Center for Disease Control could have spawned the contagion in Hubei.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If you invested an ounce of curiosity of this, instead of ignoring and trying to "debunk" information, you'd easily learn some facts.

It's now common knowledge Wuhan is the location of a bioweapons level 4 lab, and a biology college.

Is the Washington Times sufficiently legit enough for you? They report that Wuhan has China's only biological warfare laboratory to study viruses. Virus-hit Wuhan has two laboratories linked to Chinese bio-warfare program

"Virus-hit Wuhan has two laboratories linked to Chinese bio-warfare program
Virology institute there has China's only secure lab for studying deadly viruses"
"By Bill Gertz - The Washington Times - Friday, January 24, 2020
The deadly animal virus epidemic spreading globally may have originated in a Wuhan laboratory linked to China's covert biological weapons program, according to an Israeli biological warfare expert.
Dany Shoham, a former Israeli military intelligence officer who has studied Chinese bio warfare, said the institute is linked to Beijing's covert biological weapons program.

"Certain laboratories in the institute have probably been engaged, in terms of research and development, in Chinese [biological weapons], at least collaterally, yet not as a principal facility of the Chinese BW alignment," Mr. Shoham told The Washington Times."

Further, I don't think you're even reading or watching anything being posted. Senator Cotton, a highly credible US Senator, has stated there is NO connection to these food markets for some of the earliest infected. NONE. The explanation they got it from food markets is a farse.

 

[wp4]

Q - What's seems to be way more contagious than the Corona Virus?

A - The Conjecture Virus!

Ya, I gotta say again, I don't understand how it makes any difference at this point where it actually came from?

Unless it has like a 50% mortality rate and that's being hidden by the CCP because it's man made... but we haven't seen that kind of death rate on the cruise ship or cases outside of China.

So even though i find the possibility intriguing, I don't see how it will help to find out.

For a future class action lawsuit from survivors maybe... but that would be for another time that won't help us now.

 

[Xaevian]

Availability hueristic bias...check.
Confirmation bias.. check.

China's government reaction is exactly how it is expected it to react. Maintaining power is priority number one. It is dangerous to visit China right now. Not so much from the outbreak, but from possible governmental instability and long pattern of overreaction to a crisis, whether real or perceived. That is the reality about that. Their economy takes a back seat to losing power, every time 100 percent of the time. That country is a powder keg as more and more people find wealth and move away from the party. All it takes is one perceived weakness in the government resolve, and it is revolution.

So you can remove that from your theories.

Add to that that here we are, almost 3 months in since the start, in the most populous country in the world, with a proven track record of very poor sanitation and air quality, and still haven't seen a 100k death toll. More Chinese will die from starvation as a direct result from the lockdown than will die from this outbreak. That is also a fact.

The WHO and the CDC say to take this virus seriously. As in, wash your hands more than you normally do, look for symptoms. Screen travellers. Not go into panic mode as other countries are doing.

Of course, if their mind is already made up, I don't expect anyone will listen. In that case, they should still have a good 5 years left on the 25 year supplies fron Y2K.

 

[leadcounsel]

The explanation of this virus coming from a food market 200 feet from China's only bio-weapons lab, and then spreading like wildfire across the nation and into 29 nations, and causing this pandemic, is the equivalent of 2+2=985.

The high probability that this is a man made virus and a massive coverup, based on the past and current behavior of the corrupt Chinese government, along with the massive reactions of the world governments, is a 2+2=4 result.

I can't fathom seeing what is going on, and thinking this came from some bat soup. This is confirmed deadly AEROSOL spread pneumonia causing virus that has shown it's extremely contagious and extremely deadly. It has an incubation period of over 3 weeks, and can survive on surfaces for up to 9 days, as confirmed by a lot of sources. This does not seem like something that would seem to come from eating a soup made of bat meat.

 

[slimmer13]

Reading through this thread, it seems to be a classic example of being able to scour the deepest corners of the internet to be able to find "evidence" that supports whatever opinions that you already had. It's like how groups with opposite views can use the bible to support their side.

Trying to find the "truth" on the internet seems like a fool's errand.

I'm going to go on the record and say that this is such a convoluted clusterbubblegum, whipped up by a frenzied media, desperate to remain relevant, that I have no idea what's going on. I know I'm going to work and I'm going to live my life.

But as a general rule, I keep a few common sense items around usefull for multiple potential scenarios. Im not maxing out my credit cards buying masks and throat lozenges though.

 

[leadcounsel]

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I agree that it will be educational to see what actually occurs in "control" groups like those that were in quarantine on the ship, and now been released having completed their quarantine.

Keep in mind that on these "quarantine" cruise ships, taking precautions, it's still spreading relatively fast. The Diamond Princess is adding tens of infected per day on average for weeks.

If we get truthful information, which seems to not be the case entirely, we'll see just how contageous and deadly this is.

 

[Cavedweller]

Back to business. S Korea has spike in cases. Troops confined to bases. Super spreader attends church services, infects 80.

South Korea designates 2 cities as 'special care zones' as coronavirus cases spike to 156

SEOUL - South Korean officials on Friday (Feb 21) designated two cities as "special care zones" while its military confined troops to their bases in a desperate effort to contain the spread of coronavirus after a recent spike in cases. South Korea reported 52 new confirmed cases of the...

www.asiaone.com

 

[WWShooter]

The explanation of this virus coming from a food market 200 feet from China's only bio-weapons lab, and then spreading like wildfire across the nation and into 29 nations, and causing this pandemic, is the equivalent of 2+2=985.

The high probability that this is a man made virus and a massive coverup, based on the past and current behavior of the corrupt Chinese government, along with the massive reactions of the world governments, is a 2+2=4 result.

I can't fathom seeing what is going on, and thinking this came from some bat soup. This is confirmed deadly AEROSOL spread pneumonia causing virus that has shown it's extremely contagious and extremely deadly. It has an incubation period of over 3 weeks, and can survive on surfaces for up to 9 days, as confirmed by a lot of sources. This does not seem like something that would seem to come from eating a soup made of bat meat.

So what do I do differently here in the PNW if it's man-made versus naturally occurring? You're spent pages of this thread talking about the source - why does it matter to any of us who are trying to understand what to do if this virus gets out of control here?

 

[DB is Here]

Keep the dialogue going w/o calling others out or you'll find yourself out of the convo.

 

[leadcounsel]

So even though i find the possibility intriguing, I don't see how it will help to find out.

Simple. Knowing what it is, or what it is not, will help in our decision making and risk assessment.

A man-made virus in a bioweapons lab, for instance, will have different characteristics than some random virus from a food market. The latter will have random characteristics and weaknesses whereas the former will have been engineered and designed to be really effective at spreading, infecting, and killing.

And we need to know characteristics so we are acting with appropriate caution and care. In the early years of the HIV epidemic, it was thought only homosexual men could be infected, so straight men like Magic Johnson weren't as cautious. That was an under-reaction. It was also thought it could be transmitted by handshakes, so that was an over-reaction. All that mis-information was harmful because we did not know what it was.

If this is man made and a bioweapon, hopefully we can determine how it was made and the features so we can create a cure or vaccine faster. That's just one implication. We'll also know its features.

 

[leadcounsel]

So what do I do differently here in the PNW if it's man-made versus naturally occurring? You're spent pages of this thread talking about the source - why does it matter to any of us who are trying to understand what to do if this virus gets out of control here?

That's the key question, isn't it?

If we learn it has certain features, perhaps men are more vulnerable, or smokers, or old people, or that children are naturally immune, etc. Or our labs might be able to reverse engineer or create a faster vaccine. I don't have the answers. I'm simply trying to share dialogue. I assume you are here for the same reason?

 

[leadcounsel]

My serious concern is that lax attitudes in the government are going to create a spread. And it's infuriating.

Coronavirus-infected Americans flown back to US on plane full of healthy people

The 14 coronavirus-stricken Americans evacuated from a cruise ship in Japan were flown back to the US on a plane full of healthy people against advice from the CDC, a report said Thursday. Centers …

nypost.com

Coronavirus-infected Americans flown back to US on plane full of healthy people
By Tamar Lapin
February 20

"The 14 coronavirus-stricken Americans evacuated from a cruise ship in Japan were flown back to the US on a plane full of healthy people against advice from the CDC, a report said Thursday.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials argued the 14 infected Diamond Princess passengers shouldn't be flown back with the about 300 virus-free people — but ultimately lost the battle to the US State Department, according to The Washington Post.

"It was like the worst nightmare," an anonymous senior U.S. official involved in the decision told the paper.

"Quite frankly, the alternative could have been pulling grandma out in the pouring rain, and that would have been bad, too."

Test results had found that the 14 passengers were infected prior to boarding planes to the US on Monday.

"Nobody anticipated getting these results," said another U.S. official.

The State Department had vowed that no one with the infection would be allowed on — but then urged health officials to let the sick, yet symptom-free, passengers board, the paper reported."

 

[wp4]

Simple. Knowing what it is, or what it is not, will help in our decision making and risk assessment.

A man-made virus in a bioweapons lab, for instance, will have different characteristics than some random virus from a food market. The latter will have random characteristics and weaknesses whereas the former will have been engineered and designed to be really effective at spreading, infecting, and killing.

And we need to know characteristics so we are acting with appropriate caution and care. In the early years of the HIV epidemic, it was thought only homosexual men could be infected, so straight men like Magic Johnson weren't as cautious. That was an under-reaction. It was also thought it could be transmitted by handshakes, so that was an over-reaction. All that mis-information was harmful because we did not know what it was.

If this is man made and a bioweapon, hopefully we can determine how it was made and the features so we can create a cure or vaccine faster. That's just one implication. We'll also know its features.

You have good points, and I am not saying there is no need for anyone anywhere to analyze this virus.

But these are questions for professionals in laboratories to answer... this mystery won't be solved by a bunch of dudes and gals on a gun forum posting links.

I still don't see the relevancy to the situation that you and I and everyone else here is in.

 

[wp4]

That's the key question, isn't it?

If we learn it has certain features, perhaps men are more vulnerable, or smokers, or old people, or that children are naturally immune, etc. Or our labs might be able to reverse engineer or create a faster vaccine. I don't have the answers. I'm simply trying to share dialogue. I assume you are here for the same reason?

I think we're all interested in how it's spread, who is more vulnerable, etc. More of that specific information I would certainly like to hear about!

But again - man-made or not, in the words of the lovely Hillary Clinton :

"What difference at this point does it make?"

 

[CountryGent]

My serious concern is that lax attitudes in the government are going to create a spread. And it's infuriating.

Agreed, it is most infuriating. The incompetence shown thus far is alarming.

I remember the film Contagion (2011) was praised by the scientific community for its accurate portrayal of the spread of a novel virus, in addition to the stellar acting performances. I concur with that, though I took exception with the depiction of the governmental response. Based upon decades of interactions with a multiplicity of agencies, I've grown very cynical indeed. Such an outlook is, generally, uncharacteristic for yours-truly, but doesn't appear to be completely unfounded.

 

[wp4]

Test results had found that the 14 passengers were infected prior to boarding planes to the US on Monday.

"Nobody anticipated getting these results," said another U.S. official.

The State Department had vowed that no one with the infection would be allowed on — but then urged health officials to let the sick, yet symptom-free, passengers board, the paper reported."

GEEZLESS.

I hope the 300 other people are at least being watched?

I know what my money is on - a big fat NOPE.

 

[DB is Here]

Anyone else heard that the CDC isn't disclosing how many are effected in America? I heard that on the Michael Medved show this afternoon.

 

[leadcounsel]

Anyone else heard that the CDC isn't disclosing how many are effected in America? I heard that on the Michael Medved show this afternoon.

Yup. Been tracking that for days now. Total blindspots and unusual dishonesty and concealment of information by the CDC and many states. I posted up stream that over 7500 people are being asked to "self quarantine" by a handful of states, based on recent China trips. We know as of days ago there were 15 infected. Since then we've accepted at least 2 groups of infected/exposed folks from overseas who have been sent to various parts of the nation, some to military bases. There's also reports of a few "infected/recovered" who have been released.

There's not any good reliable definitive information and it's infuriating given the ineptitude, carelessness, and secrecy. If I were a conspiracy person, I'd say folks are actively TRYING to create a epidemic to harm the Trump Presidency. I won't accuse that now, but geez it seems like an active conspiracy to spread the illness in the US...

 

[Cavedweller]

Anyone else heard that the CDC isn't disclosing how many are effected in America? I heard that on the Michael Medved show this afternoon.

Interesting. The CDC site, last updated on the 19th, seems to be stuck at 15 cases. However, the site below says 27 confirmed cases (but only shows data for 16) as of Feb 21 (GMT). Neither of these counts seem to include the 14 evacuees from the Diamond Princess.

There is a press release from today saying there is a confirmed case in Humboldt Co. CA. Follow the link under US Coronavirus Cases to read the press release.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Xaevian]

Another point I would like to counter, is the outrageous assumption by some that this is an escaped bioweapon.

It is true there is a possibility , although remote, this is a man made virus strain. Labs make viruses all the time. There are actually specialized labs all over the world whose soul purpose is to create designer viruses to sell to big Pharma to play with and test vaccines. On the other hand, this would be a very poor bio weapon due to its close proximity requirement, susceptibility to uv and disinfectant, and lack of persistence. It also isn't virulent enough. Anthrax and measles derivatives are a far better choice. You can liken calling this a bioweapon to calling an AR an actual assault weapon. Its too big of a stretch.