"novak style" 1911 rear sight

[Koda]

I thought these were supposed to be an interference press fit into the dovetail? What is the point of that teeny tiny set screw?

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[Joe13]

Dunno but I'd guess elevation?

 

[ob1]

I believe it is to compensate for small machining irregularities that might show up in either the sight or frame. A last ditch provision in case you have a loose fit to add a little tension on the dovetail. They show up on after market and factory installed Novak's...3rd gen Smith's come to mind.

@Velzey would be able to confirm this.

 

[Koda]

I believe it is to compensate for small machining irregularities that might show up in either the sight or frame. A last ditch provision in case you have a loose fit to add a little tension on the dovetail. They show up on after market and factory installed Novak's...3rd gen Smith's come to mind.

@Velzey would be able to confirm this.

makes sense but... take a look at my second picture held up against a light, the gap is the light shining thru after I re-tightened the set screw. I can slip a piece of notebook paper in there. This is a brand new Dan Wesson... sight literally fell out while shooting, less than 50rds. Without the set screw, its literally a slip fit.

 

[ob1]

Whether it is an add-on or factory, when you think about it that kind of speaks to what I was saying. The machining of the two parts doesn't always fit perfectly. The screw isn't going to tighten up all those surfaces. Fix it on one surface and you loosen it at another. It's a field expedient fix, not a cure all.
That could mean grinding down the sight base etc.... But, if this is a brand new OEM set up I would send it back to Wesson and tell them to fix it. It's a quality control issue IMO.

 

[Koda]

if this is a brand new OEM set up I would send it back to Wesson and tell them to fix it. It's a quality control issue IMO.

thats ultimately what I intend to do, I just wanted to make certain that set screw wasn't the only lock by design. What you said above is what I assumed about all dovetail sights... makes sense to me.

but I cant tell you how disappointed I am in paying for a Dan Wesson to have a sight fall off, to put it nicely. Machinists have been making dove tail fits for longer than the 1911 has been around....

 

[Misteramax]

That's not a In spec dovetail cut. Send it back. Yes the screw is a way to add extra security but all sights should feel like a press fit.

 

[ob1]

A sign of the times ? I know what you are saying though. I used to be a Smith @ Wesson junkie back in the day...I wouldn't consider a new one now.

One thought though, spending a lot of bucks on a piece entitles you to extra griping points when you send it back to the factory

 

[Velzey]

Looks like the guy cutting dovetails that day was having an off day..
I would send that back and ask them to try again.

 

[Koda]

my hunch is that the entire slide is ruined and has to be replaced because too much material has been removed. Can anyone give me any insight to what their process would be? Are match barrels fit to the slide then to the frame or is a slide replacement no big deal? What are the ways they can fix the slide without replacing it and how does that affect me years from now if I wanted to replace or upgrade the sights and they had to customize the current sight somehow?

I plan on giving them a call this Friday when I have the afternoon off. But I sent in their warranty claim automailer on their website. I never have high hopes for customer service, but I do have high expectations of customer service after paying that much for it.... if I get anything less than stellar support I will let everyone know about it here. It wasn't just about the price, I've read nothing but stellar reviews about them was a leading decision to choose them over the others and pay a bit more... it was a gift to myself to see me thru the rest of my life and I wanted it to be nice and it took me a long time to save for it in cash.

 

[ob1]

If it was me, I'd send the whole thing in just in case they do need to replace the slide. If they already had a blooper with the slide to sight fit, who's to say there won't be another fit issue with a replacement slide and frame ? That way it's on them to give you back a properly test fired and functioning weapon. You're not out anything since it's on warranty and maybe you'll get a freebie {mag} for the trouble.

 

[Koda]

If it was me, I'd send the whole thing in just in case they do need to replace the slide. If they already had a blooper with the slide to sight fit, who's to say there won't be another fit issue with a replacement slide and frame ? That way it's on them to give you back a properly test fired and functioning weapon. You're not out anything since it's on warranty and maybe you'll get a freebie {mag} for the trouble.

I was thinking the same thing, thats partly why I was wondering what it entails to replace the slide on a 1911.

The other thing that really frustrates me right now is how long it might take to deal with this. I paid dearly extra for not just the supposed quality and reputation but so I wouldn't have to deal with any quality issues. I could have bought a $400 tupperware gun that runs flawlessly and moved on, seriously an overcut dovetail is effin ridiculous for a hand fit $1500 gun, not the mark of anywhere near experienced machinist. Now I'm stuck with an overpriced lemon and at the mercy of some customer service who can take months to deal with. I wanted to spend this summer breaking in the new gun for carry and protection. Yeah... this wasn't going to be a safe queen.

Keep in mind that in order for me to deal with this I have to take a day off work to stay home just so I can sign for the delivery, plus re-spend the money on ammo + time again to qualify it for use.

 

[ob1]

Well....I guess there is only one solution. We'll meet up tomorrow so we can swap that lemon of yours for my flawless hand-molded Tupperware gun. I know I'll be taking a hit on this but it's the least I can do

 

[Koda]

followup...

customer service was fast, both in response and total time to return to me. Its also worth noting, as I mentioned above I sent them an email thru their website auto-mailer warranty claim page... and got a reply the next morning. Ive never gotten a reply from any company using their website automailer as well as an email with a pre-paid warranty return label. I also emailed a question and got a reply same day. I sent the slide in on July 15 and got it back today Aug 3rd.

they replaced the rear sight. It feels solid, but I have no way to validate how solid. It also has a set screw... I'm tempted to loosen it and see if the sight moves or has play by hand.... any opinions on that?

Need to get some range time in now...

 

[Ura-Ki]

My experience with this type of sight is the set screw is there to take up any slop that develops when adjusting the sight. The factory builder should have cut it tighter, and the QC should have caught it, but it didn't. Normally, these sights are SO tight, that you need a sight pusher to adjust them, so you would think the set screw wouldn't be needed, but after moving it around a few times, they can ( very rarely) move, so the set screw is installed. I have never seen one with a gap like yours, so that is not good! Especially on a Dan Wesson!

 

[Koda]

I have never seen one with a gap like yours, so that is not good! Especially on a Dan Wesson!

agree but to clarify that is what they fixed. There is no gap now. The rear sight is a new one.

Normally, these sights are SO tight, that you need a sight pusher to adjust them, so you would think the set screw wouldn't be needed, but after moving it around a few times, they can ( very rarely) move, so the set screw is installed.

Thats my assumption, but also my opinion that if the set screw is needed to secure the sight then the dovetail is cut wrong. Basically I think I should loosen the set screw and see if there is play by hand, if so send it back again.

 

[MrMillspecer]

I'm no pro but the ones I have installed I had to file the rear sight to get them to fit. It's ok to file the sight base but NEVER file the slide. The set screw is a belt and suspenders thing. They should be a tight fit.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I'm no pro but the ones I have installed I had to file the rear sight to get them to fit. It's ok to file the sight base but NEVER file the slide. The set screw is a belt and suspenders thing. They should be a tight fit.

EXACTLY! Every one I have installed I had to file the sight to get it to fit the dove tail! Of all the 1911s ( and others) I have done, Only one actually needed the set screw, and only after adjusting it a few times could I actually move it by hand, and even then, I had to really lean on it! I have seen a few pistols that had a centering dimple in the slide, and though I have never had to pull a sight back off, they seemed to be centered with the screw and sight alignment!

 

[Koda]

Curiosity got me, I removed the set screw... and cannot budge the sight by hand anyways. I replaced the set screw. I checked its center with calipers and its centered within .005".

Overall I will rate their customer service as great, it was a fast turnaround at 3 weeks. My only gripe is there was nothing indicating what the mistake was exactly. Only a PO list of what they replaced... the rear sight.

I have 2 theories what the problem was and how they fixed it... 1) the sight was milled with the wrong dovetail size. 2) The slides dovetail was milled with the wrong dovetail size and they put in an oversized rear sight. Hopefully it was #1.

 

[MrMillspecer]

Who ever fit the rear sight removed a bit too much material. It should not have left that way and was an easy fix for them. They owned up to to. Stuff happens, it's how you react.