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Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by DIRTYBRASS, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  2. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    Wow, that guy is mad. I only skimmed the text, but I was wondering if he'd make it to the end of the essay without dying from a heart attack. Anyways, I wish all those self-proclaimed freedom fighters would actually USE the democratic rights and processes the Constitution gives us instead of constantly threatening violence. Of course serious political activism is hard work and not nearly as romantic as another civil war.

    The overwhelming majority of Americans fundamentally support the 2A (Democrat-voting Americans included), so why is it so hard to come up with alternative concepts that actually make sense to most people? Banning assault rifles and limiting mag capacities are ridiculous solutions. But so is arming teachers and putting cops into every school (while pledging a balanced budget).
     
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  3. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  4. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    You don't need to convince the wackiest of the control wackos, you need to convince the large moderate majority. When the majority is on your side, politicians (Dems and Reps) will follow. Screaming revolution tends to be a horrible idea if you're trying to win a political battle. ;)
     
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  5. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  6. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    It's not about the Second Amendment itself. Again most Americans agree with you. What is very much open to interpretation is how far the 2A goes. I support the 2A and fully agree with you that we should be allowed to own and carry AR-15s, for example. On the other hand, I don't think people should be allowed to own vehicle-mounted machine guns. Some people believe the 2A should only cover handguns or whatever. Here is where the convincing needs to happen.
     
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  7. 1stklass

    1stklass salem oregon Well-Known Member

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    Why shouldnt they be allowed vehicle mounted "machine guns"? They are legal, as far as i have found NEVER used in a crime, they are extremely extremely expensive and rare. And who has been arguing that people should be able to own them? They are the exact same calibers as any modern sporting rifle, and in semi auto version no different. Except vehicle mounted are not going to be as accurate due to the motion of the vehicle.
     
  8. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  9. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  10. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    This was just an example. But you're proving exactly the point I am trying to make: You support the 2A, and so do I. But we may disagree on what types of weapons should be covered by it.
     
  11. 1stklass

    1stklass salem oregon Well-Known Member

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    Why do you have a problem with what type of weapon someone else owns? do you have control issues? Do you really think someone that owns a 105 mm howitzer is going to use it in a crime? is he going to tow it down the street and shoot his neighbor who is sleeping with his wife? No No No, he is gonna use a Beretta pocket 22 or something small that wont ever be banned.... And if the government decides to tell everyone what they should own, eat and think, then it would be better for everyone to own a howitzer or tank or F16. If the only reason for these weapons, and the only reason they would ever be used by private individuals is to defend themselves against a tyrannical government, then they should be allowed to own them. The bigger the weapon the less likely it is to be used in a crime. If you want to nitpick weapons you may as well march yourself into a gas chamber or give your enemies machetes so they can hack your family to pieces.... and if you dont believe that i'm sure there are thousands CURRENTLY every month in Africa that dont believe it until their arm or leg gets chopped off or eyes gouged out. You may not want to believe it can happen here but human nature is human nature and it CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE.
     
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  12. 9mmguy

    9mmguy Portland, OR Member

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    Okay, you're right. I now demand my own nuclear warhead. After all, the 2A protects my right to own it.

    But seriously, I'll try this one more time: It's not about what guns I have a problem with because this isn't about me. I am just giving examples. Maybe you really think anyone should be allowed whatever guns they choose, including military grade weapon systems, but most Americans don't. Everyone has their own idea as to what kinds of weapons should be legal under the Second Amendment, and since the 2A obviously doesn't talk about specific weapons, there needs to be a civilized debate about it. That's it.
     
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  13. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  14. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  15. 1stklass

    1stklass salem oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here is how to keep things civilized.
    Lets say i'm a J@ck@$$ and we have a disagreement that forces us to both take up our guns against each other.... lets say you have a .22 or 9mm pistol and i have a 308 rifle... I am going to assume that as long as i stay a couple hundred yards away i can FORCE you to give in and think like me.... Now, if you have a 308 and i have a 308 then it comes down to who can shoot better, that isnt a risk i would want to take.... i'll risk it if you are under armed compared to me. But if your gun makes you equal to me or possibly better then i'll just never start something with you and we will never even consider going down that road. Our government is run by control freaks, all seeing who can outdo each other to control the "masses" the most. Our government needs to understand that if they ever turn on us we are EQUALLY POWERFUL, so that they will NEVER even attempt it. It will NOT be the gun owners that start a civil war, IT WILL BE THE GOVERNMENT. It ALWAYS is the government... show me one civil war in history that was STARTED by the people. It doesn't happen that way. It starts with government becoming overly oppressive, always has and always will.
     
  16. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    Since I have seen many people cave when it comes to actual combat I hope you can do it? There is no training for it as it is psychological and many people fail when a crap load of lead is flying at you. After a couple of days it gets easier :) :) :)

    I don't know you or your background. I am just putting out some general knowledge. So please don't be offended.

    On the other hand let's how it does not come down to that. Or may God help us all..

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
     
  17. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    Totally right on. Any line in the sand will be marked by the government & those that want limits on freedom. What we do whether its fight or lay down, is merely responsive to their desired oppression.
     
  18. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    Oh look, it's nutjob night in America... You guys. jeeze.
     
  19. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    "Shall not be infringed." un-interpreted:

    Firearms, Automatic Weapons, warheads, Robotic Motion-Sensing Turrets, Remote Detonation Devices, Biological and Chemical Dispersion Units, Fission Bombs, and Hellfire Rockets are freely available on the open market to any citizen including Felons, rapists, openly dissenting persons threatening violence against their neighbors.
    Assassination attempts, attacks on U.S. military personnel, and the bombing of government buildings and installations are legally protected under the 2nd Amendment's "tyrannical government" clause. Also, the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause exchange nuptials after gay marriage is legalized.

    :rolleyes:
     
  20. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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