non-reloader with a reloading question

[PuddleMonkey]

So lets assume I go with the Dillon 650, do I still need a pocket primer dealio? Dillon website says stage two of the 650 is Resize/Deprime. Keep in mind I only plan on reloading 38/357/44 at this point.

I stopped by Wholesale Sports and saw these UltraSonic Cleaners, are they better than the Tumblers?

I keep getting different answers on how many times I can use my brass. I've heard from 4 or 5 times then others have told me 40-50 times. I have no interest in hot loading, I'll just mimic what I'm used to shooting out of the box. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel here.

 

[bballer182]

So lets assume I go with the Dillon 650, do I still need a pocket primer dealio? Dillon website says stage two of the 650 is Resize/Deprime. Keep in mind I only plan on reloading 38/357/44 at this point.

I stopped by Wholesale Sports and saw these UltraSonic Cleaners, are they better than the Tumblers?

I keep getting different answers on how many times I can use my brass. I've heard from 4 or 5 times then others have told me 40-50 times. I have no interest in hot loading, I'll just mimic what I'm used to shooting out of the box. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel here.

First of all skip Wholesale sports. They suck. Customer service is horrible and prices are no good. Buy elsewhere. Second. Like I said before there is no definite answer on how many time you can reload brass. It all depends on how hot you load. I see no problem getting to 40-50 reloads as long as you keep them soft. No way to tell until you try it.

 

[Velillen]

I haven't had any problems going to wholesale sports. Their price on powder is pretty dang close to what I've found at gunstores. Primers are slightly more than online but you don't have to pay shipping. Bullets....that's pretty hot or miss for bulk.

Customer service wise the one by me is ok. They don't know everything hut they have always gone and found out answers to my questions.

But for me its them or at least a 30 minute one way trip to a real gun store so I might be a bit more linient.

As for ultrasonic....that's a debate too. Just know you can do smaller amounts at a time though it does clean better. But for plinking ammo it doesn't really matter. Tumbling gets the cases good enough in my opinion.

As for case reloads you'll find some cases you reload once and they crack or show damage while others you reload 10 or more times. Just inspect the brass prior to reloading and if it looks good keep using it

 

[bballer182]

I haven't had any problems going to wholesale sports. Their price on powder is pretty dang close to what I've found at gunstores. Primers are slightly more than online but you don't have to pay shipping. Bullets....that's pretty hot or miss for bulk.

Customer service wise the one by me is ok. They don't know everything hut they have always gone and found out answers to my questions.

But for me its them or at least a 30 minute one way trip to a real gun store so I might be a bit more linient.

As for ultrasonic....that's a debate too. Just know you can do smaller amounts at a time though it does clean better. But for plinking ammo it doesn't really matter. Tumbling gets the cases good enough in my opinion.

As for case reloads you'll find some cases you reload once and they crack or show damage while others you reload 10 or more times. Just inspect the brass prior to reloading and if it looks good keep using it

A bit off topic. But almost (95%) of the time I go there (couple times a month to check inventory and prices) the "gun counter there are usually 2 guys standing back there. There is usually the older guy and a younger guy. They both could care less to look in the back for powder or check prices on it. Can't ask them questions either cuz they could care less about the answer or care to find out for you. BUT! There is a fellow there who goes by the name of Fritz, and he knows his sh!t and is more than willing to help out. Trouble is trying to find when he is working and avoiding the other two douches.

 

[deadshot2]

So lets assume I go with the Dillon 650, do I still need a pocket primer dealio? Dillon website says stage two of the 650 is Resize/Deprime. Keep in mind I only plan on reloading 38/357/44 at this point.

I stopped by Wholesale Sports and saw these UltraSonic Cleaners, are they better than the Tumblers?

I keep getting different answers on how many times I can use my brass. I've heard from 4 or 5 times then others have told me 40-50 times. I have no interest in hot loading, I'll just mimic what I'm used to shooting out of the box. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel here.

If you're loading just pistol ammo, it isn't always necessary to clean the primer pockets or trim. What I do with my pistol brass is run it though an old Lee Progressive with just a universal depriming die mounted on it. I deprime all the brass and then put it in a tumbler with Stainless Steel Pin Media. Yes, the ultrasonic cleaners claim to be faster but the jury is out (at least with me) on if they're better. The brass that comes from the stainless pin cleaning process is clean, bright, inside and out as well as primer pockets.

I then sort the brass looking for signs of failure which is easier when small cracks aren't hidden under soot.

Load that clean and inspected brass into the casefeeder on your 650 (if that's the way you choose) and load away.

As for brass life, the reason you get so many different answers is that brass life is different for each shooter and firearm. Loose chambers are harder on brass than tight chambers due to the amount of stretching resizing. The level to which the shooter loads can also be a major factor with hot loads stressing the case far more than "powder puff" loads.

The caliber can make a lot of difference. 9mm brass lasts longer as a rule than .45acp due to the design of the case wall. Straight walled pistol brass for revolvers often require a roll crimp which is more stressful on the case mouth than a taper crimp yet many will taper crimp revolver rounds when loading bullets without cannelure.

There is no ONE answer for how long your brass will last, that will depend on YOU, your gun, and your load. I don't even count loads on my brass anymore. Lost count on my 9mm brass, I just toss the one or two that split every thousand shots or so. Likewise with my .308 brass or .223 brass. Unless there is an obvious problem before I load the brass like a loose primer pocket or a bright near the base of the case that says more inspection is needed. Rifle cases will often form a real bright ring just above the base as they get thin and are about to separate. These cases then get a careful inspection with something similar to a dental pic looking for the groove inside that corresponds with the ring outside. Again, I have so few case failures due to the level of loading that I don't even worry. Good inspection of those nice clean cases fresh from the Stainless Steel Media cleaning makes it a piece of cake.

BTW, that "out of the box" ammo can be fairly "stout". Some of those loads are just about the SAAMI maximum for pressure in order to get the speed necessary to keep the bullet "lethal" at longer distances. Don't assume that just because it's factory it's moderate pressure.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I use a tumbler and automatic dishwasher detergent with hot water, then shake them dry in an old towel and lay them out in a cardboard box to dry.. cheap and non gun, non media related process

 

[Velillen]

A bit off topic. But almost (95%) of the time I go there (couple times a month to check inventory and prices) the "gun counter there are usually 2 guys standing back there. There is usually the older guy and a younger guy. They both could care less to look in the back for powder or check prices on it. Can't ask them questions either cuz they could care less about the answer or care to find out for you. BUT! There is a fellow there who goes by the name of Fritz, and he knows his sh!t and is more than willing to help out. Trouble is trying to find when he is working and avoiding the other two douches.

Ah I've only been there a handful of times and never to ask questions. Simply a I want this powder. The manager has to get it for some silly reason. Have bought two guns from them but again it was walk up to the counter and tell them this is what I want.

 

[Matt Selders]

Greetings Northwest Firearms,

I don't know how it is in the Portland store, but we keep a record at the gun counter of our powder inventory with prices, available to the customers in Vancouver. I do have a few employees whom can help with reloading questions but we don't have an expert, so to speak. We rely very heavily on load data contained in the manuals from Nosler, Barnes, Speer, etc. There is a huge amount of liability of offering reloading advice, so we stick to the mfg's specs and recipes. As to pricing, we will price match all the locals. We even submit those pricematches afterwards to our corporate office so they can bring the pricing inline with other stores in market. We are having a big sale right now to clear out old inventory so you might find a smoking deal right now.

I have some basic reloading skills personally (learned from my dad). I use a media tumbler with cob. Works well for me. Reloading economics breaks even only after you have paid for your hardware through savings on your per box cost. If I can save 5 bucks a box, and my basic hardware set me back $200, I need to load 800 rounds to break even. Most avid shooters will put that through their firearms every month or two.If I shoot an uncommon or expensive caliber, I might save quite a bit more per box. If I shot a lot of auto pistol, 5.56, .308 or other common calibers, I would consider a progressive to save time at the reloading bench, but it will cost quite a bit more.

I put factory loads only in my home and/or personal defense firearms. I use reloads for target/hunting and plinking. I am not an avid shooter and reload because I enjoy it. You likely have a friend or two that reload. Maybe they would be willing to share some press time.

Let me know if there is any way I can help out. Feel free to contact me through the most convenient means.

Regards,
Matt Selders
Store Manager, WSS Van, WA

 

[deadshot2]

Simply a I want this powder. The manager has to get it for some silly reason.

When you read the "rules" for storing powder in retail establishments in WA State they are limited to the amount that can be on display at any given time. The rest has to be stored in a "Magazine". There is even a limit as to how much powder can be in a single "magazine". The new Cabela's in Tulalip (Marysville) has three of them. May seem like a silly rule but maybe not when you consider what could happen in the event of fire.

 

[evltwn]

What responders to your query failed to address is you stated notion that reloading is "BS". Your words, not mine. While the hobbyist/reloader saves a ton of money, creates a round to HIS specifications, perhaps even casts his own bullets, you are more interested in "TIME". So go ahead and buy your rounds, pass on the opportunity to learn, create, derive satisfaction of YOUR efforts.

Me? I like the bs. See ya at the range. I'll be the guy talking you out of your brass.

 

[bballer182]

Greetings Northwest Firearms,

Let me know if there is any way I can help out. Feel free to contact me through the most convenient means.

Regards,
Matt Selders
Store Manager, WSS Van, WA

Matt, thank you for chiming in. I'm going to keep you in mind next time I stroll through the Portland store.

 

[PuddleMonkey]

Thanks for the replies guys! I'm going to work on getting some space cleared out and a bench so I can get the primers rolling on this.


I can't speak ill of Wholesale Sports as they've always been helpful when I'm in there, most of the gun counter guys recognize me as I've purchased at least 10 guns in the last year and I'm in there often. Personally I think they've got the best prices in the area, saved $170 buying one of my Sigs from them over Cabelas. I support local guys like Brightwater too but my problem there is finding the guns I need. I noticed BW have their signs up in the BiMart complex but I don't know if Nick & Co. have moved in there yet.

 

[PuddleMonkey]

What responders to your query failed to address is you stated notion that reloading is "BS". Your words, not mine. While the hobbyist/reloader saves a ton of money, creates a round to HIS specifications, perhaps even casts his own bullets, you are more interested in "TIME". So go ahead and buy your rounds, pass on the opportunity to learn, create, derive satisfaction of YOUR efforts.

Me? I like the bs. See ya at the range. I'll be the guy talking you out of your brass.

Aw, c'mon now go easy on me, I've softened my stance quite a bit since my feral cats comment.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

For any serious defensive loads I prime seperately.. Using an RCBS priming station that is mounted on my office desck, which is an old steel school teacher desk. That way I can listen to audios or music while priming

For mass target ammo the Dillon RL1050 does the trick

I'm not a feral cat, I'm a lion

 

[Silver02ex]

I reload 9mm, 40 S&W, 45ACP 44 Mag and 223. The up front cost is more for everything but, the amount of saving will pay for it down the road. How long? It depends what you shoot, how many rounds and how often. My wife and I shoot about 600 ish rounds per month. It takes me about 1-2 hrs to reload that many rounds. I enjoy reloading as much as shooting since its another hobby. I also buy my bullets, primers, and powder, in big bulk so I only have to buy it 2 times a year. Doing it this way is much better than going to the store and find out they are out of the ammo you want or having to pay full price for it. Plus I don't have to worry about running out of ammo.

 

[Throckmorton]

550 vs 650 vs 1050 open to debate,so i'm donning my flame proof garb.

I see very little time diffeeence betwee the 550 and 650.I have a 550,my neighbor has a 650 with case feeder.If we were to have a one hundred round contest..that is what the primer tube holds,I"ll bet I'd not be more than a minute behind him if that,

the 1050 is a whole 'nuther ball game,way more money,and for me not even a consideration.
for the OP,shooting 700 rounds/week,it just might be.Especially for pistol ammo.

OP,go to Brian Enos's website,then give him a call,he'll fix u up and knows the machines inside,outside,and upside down.

OP asked about tumblers,here's a little video I did for another newbie.



Dillon's massive tumbler is prolly even a better way to go for mass cleaning.

 

[deadshot2]

Dillon's massive tumbler is prolly even a better way to go for mass cleaning.

Except for the fact that you can't use the stainless steel pins in it. I haven't used corncob/walnut shell for so long I'm not sure I even have enough around to fill my vibrator type "tumbler".

One can easily get hooked on the clean (inside, outside, primer pockets too) cases the pin media produces. Couple that with the fact there's no more dust and the media will probably last a lifetime, it's hard to look back.

Kind of like when I switched from loading pistol rounds, one at a time, to a 650. No comparison.

 

[safooma]

I will just address the cost/price part of the question. Currently using titegroup and plated bullets i can reload a box(50) of 9mm for about $4.50 and a box of .45 for about $8. Here's the breakdown for .45:

Titegroup 4.6 gr = 1522 per pound at $19/# = 1.2 cents
x-treme 230gr plated rn @ 11.6 cents per
primer Winchester large $27 per 1000 = 2.7 cents per

total= 15.5 cents per round x50 =$7.75/box

That is a significant savings. However, I should add that my reloading gear(cheap *** lee classic 4 turret) were given to me for free ;-)

 

[tac]

In the good old days before the Great Betrayal here in yUK, I used to reload twelve different handgun cartridges and nine rifle cartridges.

Now I reload just two handgun loads - in the same .357Mag cartridge, but have increased my rifle selection to eleven.

I began reloading in the early 70's, and bought the best available equipment around - RCBS from my local R & G on the base at Mildenhall here in yUK.

I still use it most every weekend - and with the same dies I bought back then as well.

I have a Lee progressive press for the revolver cartridges, and use the RCBS for all the rifle types.

Here in yUK, the cost of shooting for fun is not quite extortionate, but it's heading that way. A recent price hike by the only importer of Swiss GP11 has raised the cost to almost $0.90 per round, and I shoot a lot of Swiss. Needless to say I reload that, too - buying 174gr bullets by the thousand is slightly cheaper than a single hundred, and the local shipping cost is the same $7.50 regardless of how much you order. My two .308Win loads for my two target rifles are as good as the round that they are based on - Lapua 167gr Match, that now costs just over $82 for TWENTY.

I don't have to justify my reloading hobby - without it, 90% of us over here would be watching the rich 10% shooting.

tac

 

[PuddleMonkey]

550 vs 650 vs 1050 open to debate,so i'm donning my flame proof garb.

I see very little time diffeeence betwee the 550 and 650.I have a 550,my neighbor has a 650 with case feeder.If we were to have a one hundred round contest..that is what the primer tube holds,I"ll bet I'd not be more than a minute behind him if that,

the 1050 is a whole 'nuther ball game,way more money,and for me not even a consideration.
for the OP,shooting 700 rounds/week,it just might be.Especially for pistol ammo.

OP,go to Brian Enos's website,then give him a call,he'll fix u up and knows the machines inside,outside,and upside down.

OP asked about tumblers,here's a little video I did for another newbie.



Dillon's massive tumbler is prolly even a better way to go for mass cleaning.

This Brian Enos guy sounds familiar for some reason. Benefit to ordering from Brian? Doesn't Dillon sell this stuff directly?


I do like what he said on his Q&A page, "It's seldom necessary to trim cases. In my opinion, for pistols, revolvers, and rifles - unless the round will not chamber in the gun because the case is too long, or you're attempting to win your State's Benchrest Championship - trimming brass is a waste of time."


For some reason I couldn't get the video to load.