Non-NFA "shorty" shotguns - legal federally, not legal in Oregon?

[The Heretic]

ORS 166.272 - Unlawful possession of machine guns, certain short-barreled firearms and firearms silencers - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.272)

"Unlawful possession of a machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer is a Class B felony."

ORS 166.210 - Definitions - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.210)

Here is the questionable part:

"Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun if the weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches."

So - is the definition of a SBS in Oregon law that a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" and OAL of less than 26"?

Or is that a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or OAL of less than 26"?

I am thinking the former - hence the use of the word "and" - but I am not sure.

This is where I am thinking some people will get tripped up on some of these "loopholes" in federal laws and BATF policy/rules/etc.; that they have to meet both federal and state law, and that state laws don't always have the same definitions/etc. as the federal laws - i.e., what is an SBR or SBS or "firearm" or AOW, etc., doesn't always match the federal laws or BATF interpretations.

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[Nocaster]

I think the question is how "shotgun" is defined in Oregon. The reason those things are legal under Federal law is that they don't fit the federal definition of shotgun.

 

[The Heretic]

I think the question is how "shotgun" is defined in Oregon. The reason those things are legal under Federal law is that they don't fit the federal definition of shotgun.

Well, the first cite

ORS 166.272 - Unlawful possession of machine guns, certain short-barreled firearms and firearms silencers - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.272)

Is what refers to the second cite which contains the definition of a SBS. I don't see anywhere else in ORS where a shotgun is defined, except in ORS 166.210 - Definitions - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.210)

There is also:

ORS 166.410 - Manufacture, importation or sale of firearms - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.410)

 

[Nocaster]

I think the answer to the question in your OP is the latter, i.e. a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or OAL of less than 26"

 

[The Heretic]

I think the answer to the question in your OP is the latter, i.e. a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or OAL of less than 26"

But that is not how the law is usually written; if there is an "and", then that usually means that both conditions must exist, otherwise it needs an "or".

 

[Joe13]

My understanding was that it needed to meet Both requirements to be legal without a stamp.

 

[Nocaster]

The statutory language for reference:
"Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun if the weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches"

My understanding was that it needed to meet Both requirements to be legal without a stamp.

I agree. A 16" barreled shotgun that is liner than 26" is still a SBS, under both Federal and Oregon law.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

The way I've looked at this wording is the key point being: was it converted from full-size shotgun or made to be the size it is from the get-go.

Similar to the fal-de-ral about a rifle lower being made to be a SBR or pistol at the outset rather than converting it from a regular rifle lower.

This part here: "and any weapon made from a shotgun" This is how it becomes an AOW.

 

[The Heretic]

The way I've looked at this wording is the key point being: was it converted from full-size shotgun or made to be the size it is from the get-go.

Similar to the fal-de-ral about a rifle lower being made to be a SBR or pistol at the outset rather than converting it from a regular rifle lower.

This part here: "and any weapon made from a shotgun" This is how it becomes an AOW.

Yes - but that is federal law.

State law makes no mention about any of that.

The only reference I can find to a SBS is that it is a shotgun with a barrel(s) shorter than 18" and OAL less than 26". I searched the oregon law site and I didn't see any definition of what a shotgun was.

I agree that there is this "variance" in the federal laws/regs/etc. that seems to currently allow for a firearm with smooth bore that has never had a buttstock attached, that is 26+" long, regardless of the barrel length - and that this is not a "shotgun" by federal law definition.

Maybe that is the key. Since state law doesn't define what a shotgun is, maybe it depends on federal law for that definition? And since federal law is interpreted to mean that these smooth bore firearms are not shotguns?

Personally, I don't have a horse in this race - yet. I would rather have a bullpup shotgun than a "shorty". But I do think it is important to understand what both federal law and state law say on the matter. I would hate to see someone get arrested and tried because we overlooked state law.

It is kind of like the thing with the pull/release triggers; they are fine with the feds, but the way I read Oregon law they are not okay with the state.

 

[wired]

How do you read the pull release triggers to be not OK in Oregon ?


"Machine gun means a weapon of any description by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, which is designed or modified to allow two or more shots to be fired by a single pressure on the trigger device."

The release is a separate action than the pull.

I think you are over reading a bit on both accounts.

 

[arakboss]

ORS 166.272 - Unlawful possession of machine guns, certain short-barreled firearms and firearms silencers - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.272)

"Unlawful possession of a machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer is a Class B felony."

ORS 166.210 - Definitions - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.210)

Here is the questionable part:

"Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun if the weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches."

So - is the definition of a SBS in Oregon law that a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" and OAL of less than 26"?

Or is that a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or OAL of less than 26"?

I am thinking the former - hence the use of the word "and" - but I am not sure.

This is where I am thinking some people will get tripped up on some of these "loopholes" in federal laws and BATF policy/rules/etc.; that they have to meet both federal and state law, and that state laws don't always have the same definitions/etc. as the federal laws - i.e., what is an SBR or SBS or "firearm" or AOW, etc., doesn't always match the federal laws or BATF interpretations.

I think they are identifying two different firearms. So this is the correct interpretation.

"Or is that a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or OAL of less than 26"?"

The idea behind this is likely that a shotgun with 18.5 barrels could still be concealed if OAL was less than 26 inches.

I think the Mossberg shockwave is safe for two reasons. It's not a shotgun and it's OAL is over 26 inches (barely).

 

[Librarian]

"Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun if the weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches"

I think this needs to be parsed as

Short-barreled shotgun means
a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length

and

Short-barreled shotgun means
any weapon made from a shotgun if the weapon has an overall length of less than 26 inches

It would have been handy if 166.210(12) had used (a) and (b) subsections for the distinct definitions.

No, I don't find any ORS definition for 'shotgun', either. I suppose, at one time, 'everybody knew' what a shotgun is/was, and adding a definition was thought unnecessary.

 

[solv3nt]

I think they are identifying two different firearms. So this is the correct interpretation.

"Or is that a "short-barreled" shotgun is a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or OAL of less than 26"?"

The idea behind this is likely that a shotgun with 18.5 barrels could still be concealed if OAL was less than 26 inches.

I think the Mossberg shockwave is safe for two reasons. It's not a shotgun and it's OAL is over 26 inches (barely).

What is the shockwave if not a shotgun?

 

[wired]

What is the shockwave if not a shotgun?

Shotguns have buttstock and fire from the shoulder. The shockwave is just a firearm. It does not meet the legal definition of a shotgun.

 

[solv3nt]

Shotguns have buttstock and fire from the shoulder.

Good lord.

 

[wired]

Good lord.

That is the legal definition. Smooth bore and fire from the shoulder. Shockwaves do not fire from the shoulder

 

[solv3nt]

That is the legal definition. Smooth bore and fire from the shoulder. Shockwaves do not fire from the shoulder

Understood, the legal definition is just crazy.

 

[The Heretic]

The thing is, you can get a fully rifled barrel for a shotgun and per federal law, that is still a shotgun, even though it is not a smoothbore.

 

[arakboss]

What is the shockwave if not a shotgun?

It's a firearm.

 

[arakboss]

The thing is, you can get a fully rifled barrel for a shotgun and per federal law, that is still a shotgun, even though it is not a smoothbore.

That is what confuses me. Normally a firearm with a shoulder stock and a rifled barrel is a rifle. I am not sure how a rifled barrel shotgun escapes the rifle classification?

Edit it appears the feds definition of shotgun includes the type of ammunition it uses.

2.1.1 Shotgun A shotgun is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the
energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of
projectiles or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger