Non-Firearm Political Talk Prohibited - Discuss Here

[IronMonster]

Do I need to remind you you also agreed to these rules as a condition of the use of this site? So you voluntary agreed to comply with the rules and then complain about having to adhere to your agreement?

 

[U201491]

There is such a thing as trying to play the long game, promoting the community. Trying to be the "better man" by not resorting to name calling and derogatory tactics. We need to be the ones who present rational arguments. We need to appear to be the voice of reason in the debate. There is a time and place for the fight, a family friendly site trying to portray the wholesome nature of the shooting sports may not be the best place for polarizing attacks. Taku you see everything as black and white. You attack those who are not willing to side with your extremism. In the way you present your views there is no room for everyone else. You advise people to break the law and call those who comply cowards. I think your heart is in the right place but I think you turn more people away than you convert to your cause. Tact and strategy (as well as control and poise) are a lot more effective in the long game than ultimatums and name calling. It takes everyone in the fight. I have as much conviction as anyone but I play a different role than you. I wouldn't ask you to change, But I would ask that rather than calling those who are fighting a different fight "Compromisers, sympathizers or just anti plants" that you understand that by doing so you are alienating allies. You represent a small percentage of vocal, passionate and politically polarized gun owners. We need you. We also need everyone else to be on the same side and not fighting amongst us. We need the fudds and the hunters. We need the collectors. We need tactical nerds and we need the folks who have no political opinion at all. We need to be united. If we fall off into factions that are isolated and bickering we will lose. We are already at a disadvantage, we cannot afford to belittle those who might not have as strong of convictions but are still on our side. I even know some gun owning lefties ( I live in Seattle after all) perhaps we need them most of all. We need people on the other side of the political spectrum standing up for firearms rights. We need a united front and support for firearms rights is support no matter where it comes from. You dont need to be a extremest to be on our side.

UHH NO, Look where that has got us. In the black hole in the outhouse. Time now to get as nasty as they are because they WILL NOT QUIT and its seriously time to knee them square in the groin. PC will lose this battle, well it has already lot the battle, but we cannot let it lose the WAR. Time to wake up !!
No More butt kissin and mollycoddling in hopes they will turn around in their thinking because they will chew the pro gun citizens up and spit them into the "egal" system. Now that is Irony, snce they use every illegal means they can to undermine the Constitution and steal positions of power. Sooy but NO.
Its is time to stand now. END THE PC death roll.
.

 

[Gator Monroe]

Do I need to remind you you also agreed to these rules as a condition of the use of this site? So you voluntary agreed to comply with the rules and then complain about having to adhere to your agreement?

There WILL BE more & more encroachment on 2A/RTKBA as the last two years of Teh Messiah wind down (Mostly on a State Level but by Pen & phone too) it will have to be addressed here civilly and tastefully and with focus and verifiable truth, it is not too much to allow this it ?

 

[U201491]

l


Thing is you're not being told to shut up, your nicely being asked to be respectful of the rules

All of your posts regarding this sounds like you personally aree threatened. Why would you side with the anti's in trying to fight against totally open voices of people willing to fight back?????
That baffles me.... well maybe not so much ?????
I do find it revealing though.
PC and directed speech is what has led us down the manure smelling rose colored path of destruction. PC speech is what will bury and destroy our Constitution.

Juevos, Gonads, Spine ie; GUTS are what gave us this Nation and that is what its going to take to keep it.
PC has outlived itself and its usefulness for the left. It is really time to feed it back to them by the truckload.
Straight blunt truth is what is needed, and those that can't handle it, need to learn to soon.
You cannot use the terms like hate speech and all the other bs descriptions to describe truth because you do not like it. Truth is what it is. The truth is the fight for the 2nd is 100% political in nature, or we would not be fighting it.
If it ends up being a "do not fight the 2nd battle by mentioning political roots that attack it then that will be giving in to the left minded people that try to impose their rule on everyone else. It then becomes a useless place to help defend the 2nd altogether. No Second and this might as well be a backpacking or sewing forum.
That IS truth. You all know it.
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[Just Jim]

Do I need to remind you you also agreed to these rules as a condition of the use of this site? So you voluntary agreed to comply with the rules and then complain about having to adhere to your agreement?

Sorry about the slow reply, had to eat my pappy Murphys. You never make things better by bowing down to the rules of men, it not in the nature of free men. It's better for everyone if the site grows but at what sacrifice? I like things to be better, I have been a builder all my life. If you want things to become old and stagnant then set up rules and run the place into the ground.

Compare us with England, would you be willing to follow the rules of King George or would you be part of the rebellion?

 

[U201491]

There is such a thing as trying to play the long game, promoting the community. .

Those words and that tactic has gone on for over a half century and we have steadily lost ground to the leftist gun grabbers. That long game is BS and will do nothing anymore but cause us to lose more ground as has happened every year, year after year. We gain one step and lose 5, and the "Long Game" time has seriously ended unless your ultimate goal is to hand them the Constitution. They have played that long game. We have tried to fight on those terms and no it has not worked. The castration principle is now needed to keep what we cherish.

To win this we must become meaner and nastier than the enemy we fight.
Yeah that is truth also, whether you admit it or not does not change the cold facts.
They like nice, they eat it for breakfast and defecate it back all over you.

.

 

[etrain16]

Do I need to remind you you also agreed to these rules as a condition of the use of this site? So you voluntary agreed to comply with the rules and then complain about having to adhere to your agreement?

I 100% agree with what you say about the rules. It is Joe's site, and, therefore, his rules. The trouble I have is that you can't separate politics from guns, and the moderation of political discussion is, at times, inconsistent. The rules state that firearms related political discussion is allowed, yet threads talking about Kate Brown becoming Governor were shut down - and her becoming Governor definitely does have an impact on the future of firearms rights in this state. While I understand the intent of the rule, I don't think there is enough clear direction, and it allows those who may perhaps disagree with certain opinions, to shut things down based on that rule. I do my best to respect Joe's rules, but sometimes I have a hard time having a clear understanding of what is allowed and what isn't based on the somewhat inconsistent moderation that is sometimes applied.

 

[Just Jim]

Those words and that tactic has gone on for over a half century and we have steadily lost ground to the leftist gun grabbers. That long game is BS and will do nothing anymore but cause us to lose more ground as has happened every year, year after year. We gain one step and lose 5, and the "Long Game" time has seriously ended unless your ultimate goal is to hand them the Constitution. They have played that long game. We have tried to fight on those terms and no it has not worked. The castration principle is now needed to keep what we cherish.

Long game, let's see how that is working...nope hasn't worked one bit as time and again we have people willing to give up rights. Those are my rights they want to give up and they have no right to do so. So I could use times date and focus points in history but by rules I can't bring them up as factual evidence.

 

[U201491]

Do I need to remind you you also agreed to these rules as a condition of the use of this site? So you voluntary agreed to comply with the rules and then complain about having to adhere to your agreement?

And now Joe has given us an opportunity to express our opinions about it. Respect that also.

 

[Gator Monroe]

Somehow I see division between the Powers that be here( Owner/Mod/Admins Stealth Mod/Admins/ Platinum Doners/Longtime Posters) as a potentiality if the rules on this are eased .

 

[Just Jim]

I 100% agree with what you say about the rules. It is Joe's site, and, therefore, his rules. The trouble I have is that you can't separate politics from guns, and the moderation of political discussion is, at times, inconsistent. The rules state that firearms related political discussion is allowed, yet threads talking about Kate Brown becoming Governor were shut down - and her becoming Governor definitely does have an impact on the future of firearms rights in this state. While I understand the intent of the rule, I don't think there is enough clear direction, and it allows those who may perhaps disagree with certain opinions, to shut things down based on that rule. I do my best to respect Joe's rules, but sometimes I have a hard time having a clear understanding of what is allowed and what isn't based on the somewhat inconsistent moderation that is sometimes applied.

By not being able to point out bad political behavior it will continue thus cutting our own throats. Which ever way this goes it will be Joe's choice.

 

[U201491]

Long game, let's see how that is working...nope hasn't worked one bit as time and again we have people willing to give up rights. Those are my rights they want to give up and they have no right to do so. So I could use times date and focus points in history but by rules I can't bring them up as factual evidence.

Yeah I could not believe I read that either. The long game has been the lefts tactic since Khrushchev's shoe pounding episode.
The only LONG GAME we need to play is the maintenance of the US Constitution so our kids and grandkids have an honorable heritage and then pray and hope they continue that guardianship.

 

[U201491]

Somehow I see division between the Powers that be here( Owner/Mod/Admins Stealth Mod/Admins/ Platinum Doners/Longtime Posters) as a potentiality if the rules on this are eased .

That will have no bearing on anything.

What it will do is have a bearing on the effectiveness of the site to fight for the 2nd. That is what I see as most important. But it isn't my site. Someone told me there were something like 14,000 firearms sites on the net. A search with that term brings up :
"About 17,000,000 results (0.34 seconds)"

 

[Gator Monroe]

That will have no bearing on anything.

What it will do is have a bearing on the effectiveness of the site to fight for the 2nd. That is what I see as most important. But it isn't my site. Someone told me there were something like 14,000 firearms sites on the net. A search with that term brings up :
"About 17,000,000 results (0.34 seconds)"

And I've been banned from many over Politics lol...

 

[Just Jim]

That will have no bearing on anything.

What it will do is have a bearing on the effectiveness of the site to fight for the 2nd. That is what I see as most important. But it isn't my site. Someone told me there were something like 14,000 firearms sites on the net.

Problem is how Joe is going to go with the site. He has an investment of capital here and I am sure he wants it to grow. Not just for the money but to make a difference. These sites are basically a social arrangement that most have a social investment in, they come here to talk and be happy. The common thread is firearms. Take away the reasons to be here and people will leave. Give them reasons to stay and the place will make a difference, even in the political world.

 

[U201491]

And I've been banned from many over Politics lol...

Quenching and silencing fighters says much about the sites.

 

[U201491]

Problem is how Joe is going to go with the site. He has an investment of capital here and I am sure he wants it to grow. Not just for the money but to make a difference. These sites are basically a social arrangement that most have a social investment in, they come here to talk and be happy. The common thread is firearms. Take away the reasons to be here and people will leave. Give them reasons to stay and the place will make a difference, even in the political world.

Well given the opportunity to speak my mind here I will use it,
You can all hate me in the morning but I will still say my mind here.
It is a good thread and reveals much.

 

[IronMonster]

I personally think this thread is a perfect example of why political talk is not appropriate for a forum. Nothing has been solved, no ones mind has been changed, we are more divided than ever.

That is the issue here in my mind. There is nothing that will be solved by internal political debate and quite a bit of risk. I personally welcome opposing view points. I can debate this with you all day on here or in person and still be friends at the end of the day. I am willing to concede there are other valid viewpoints than mine but there is very little chance of you changing my stance, as there is very little chance of me changing yours. What polarized discussion mostly does is raise blood pressure and lead to division.

I don't like your approach, matter of fact I equate it to the open carry folks going out of thier way to make us look bad, the vast majority of gun owners are not fans of those tactics. They are harmful to our cause. The actions of a few defining us all.

You know nothing about me or what I have fought for. You have no idea of the sacrifces I have made or the battles I have fought to ensure my rights as well as those of others. I can tell you that I personally far better understanding than most about the right to keep and bear arms and how important it is. I have spent more money than most people make in a year in those battles, yet you berate me and treat me like an enemy rather than an comrade.

It's poor tactics, and if you really are determined to win the war you should stop attacking the soldiers fighting along side you.

I think the debate and conversation needs to happen, I just question that this is the place for it.

 

[Gator Monroe]

Quenching and silencing fighters says much about the sites.

I don't blame calguns.net and survivorsksboards and glocktalk and ar15.com and ... They did it for a noble version of Forum/Board unity but they were also duped by Liberal Web War Room keyboard Commandos on a mission to rat pack Firearm Forum/Boards to influence opinion there, and Racist Bigoted Sexist Homophobic Spammer supporters of Israel (The Tiny Jewish State) & America (Me) had to be squashed ...

 

[Gator Monroe]

If the soldiers fighting along side me vote against me at the Polls election cycle after election cycle they are not REALLY BESIDE ME IN TRUTH.