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dinky450

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They are funky-cool. Once you get used to them, they are quite nifty, though a bit chunky and hard to customize, that and they are EXPENSIVE!
For the money alone, I would take the TAVOR over any of the other Bullpups! Now, if someone wanted to gift me one of these, I wouldn't turn it down, and I wouldn't sell it ether!
They are funky-cool. Once you get used to them, they are quite nifty, though a bit chunky and hard to customize, that and they are EXPENSIVE!
For the money alone, I would take the TAVOR over any of the other Bullpups! Now, if someone wanted to gift me one of these, I wouldn't turn it down, and I wouldn't sell it ether!

Deseet tech Mdrx is still a new Bullpup but way better trigger. Uses standard AR platform magazines. Also multiple calibers to choose from and switch calibers on the same chassis.

20210904_213436.jpg
 

ilikegunspdx

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This was on In Range today:


I don't know anything about them, though the test was interesting. The carbine itself looks like some kind of weird fish though.
Cool compact design. FN quality. I wonder though at $2800ish? would it be worth it over some of the more compact options? Fe brn-180 would be about $1700 less and also compact depending on what stock U use. Also the short stroke gas piston system of the ar-180 has been used on numerous other firearms so has proven reliability. Also uses standard AR lower so that may help from a parts standpoint.

I was comparing size of brn-180 12.5" barrel to regular AR. The FN beats the brn-180 for compactness when stock deployed by a bit (but FN has longer barrel). For me compactness would be a big factor for SHTF scenario, not single most important factor but a big factor. For reference the FN is about 27" which is nice and compact imo for what it is.

16" AR vs 12.5" brn-180 in their most compact shootable forms.
4726C08D-3C26-4FFE-9ED6-698037F892F4.jpeg

16" AR vs 12.5" brn-180 with stocks fully extended:
B05474BB-F09E-4788-B112-A2F6642AB6EB.jpeg
Edit: brn-180 shown is 10.5" barrel. I always confuse sig virtus and brn-180 on barrel length. Btw virtus would be another one on my top choice list for non-ar SHTF.
 
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dinky450

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Cool compact design. FN quality. I wonder though at $2800ish? would it be worth it over some of the more compact options? Fe brn-180 would be about $1700 less and also compact depending on what stock U use. Also the short stroke gas piston system of the ar-180 has been used on numerous other firearms so has proven reliability. Also uses standard AR lower so that may help from a parts standpoint.

I was comparing size of brn-180 12.5" barrel to regular AR. The FN beats the brn-180 for compactness when stock deployed by a bit (but FN has longer barrel). For me compactness would be a big factor for SHTF scenario, not single most important factor but a big factor. For reference the FN is about 27" which is nice and compact imo for what it is.

16" AR vs 12.5" brn-180 in their most compact shootable forms.
View attachment 1058743

16" AR vs 12.5" brn-180 with stocks fully extended:
View attachment 1058744

Bulpup still maintains 16in barrels with out compromising bullet velocity.
 

3MTA3

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You can add the Keltec SU16 to the list. It has a good reputation for reliability, looks less skeery than an AR and takes AR mags. The standard model has built in spare mag storage in the buttstock and there is also a lightweight folding version that will fit in a backpack and can be fired with the stock folded. The hand guard can also be used as a bipod on all 16" models.

1635379211404.png
1635379339172.png
 
This was on In Range today:


I don't know anything about them, though the test was interesting. The carbine itself looks like some kind of weird fish though.
Speaking as one who has had his life depending on his rifle and skill with the same while in combat....
Don't ever do a "mud test" like this....:eek: :D

We might have been filthy , our weapons were as clean as we could get 'em while in the field.
So called "tests" like these are tough to watch....I dislike abuse of firearms.

( Not a poke at CountryGent here....just the so called "test" )
Andy
 

Ura-Ki

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You can add the Keltec SU16 to the list. It has a good reputation for reliability, looks less skeery than an AR and takes AR mags. The standard model has built in spare mag storage in the buttstock and there is also a lightweight folding version that will fit in a backpack and can be fired with the stock folded. The hand guard can also be used as a bipod on all 16" models.

View attachment 1058897
View attachment 1058898
I absolutely LOVE mine! I got the "Cali" spec ( bottom one) which didn't have the folder, but has everything else. Then scored a folder stock off eBay for cheap! I wanted the Cali style fixed sight not the normal barrel sight, and did the rear sight conversion and trigger job, it runs flawlessly and is quite accurate, I can definitely recommend these, especially as a low cost alternate to the AR in a less then scary configuration. Folded, it's about as small a foot print as you will find in a full length barreled rifle!
 

3MTA3

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I absolutely LOVE mine! I got the "Cali" spec ( bottom one) which didn't have the folder, but has everything else. Then scored a folder stock off eBay for cheap! I wanted the Cali style fixed sight not the normal barrel sight, and did the rear sight conversion and trigger job, it runs flawlessly and is quite accurate, I can definitely recommend these, especially as a low cost alternate to the AR in a less then scary configuration. Folded, it's about as small a foot print as you will find in a full length barreled rifle!
I think that's the only version with a threaded barrel as well, definitely the one to get!
 

Ura-Ki

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I think that's the only version with a threaded barrel as well, definitely the one to get!
I does, and it runs very well suppressed, no out gassing, or any negative aspects! I do wish their plastic was of a higher quality, but it's quite servable as is, and it's just fine as is! The ergos are actually perfect, something I was pleasantly surprised with, and Mag interchangeability is about as good as any. I normally run 10 and 20 round P-Mags through mine, but it can take any of the more common mags out there! Dosn't seem to be picky with ammo ether, but shows a preference for the good stuff!
 
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For some maybe...Not me...as I don't find the so called test...realistic in most cases.
Andy
Friend of mine was out on training maneuvers in the military. It was raining and his platoon/whatever was moving up a muddy slope. He slipped and fell face first into the mud on top of his M16. He somehow twisted the for-end and broke the gas tube, effectively making the rifle a "bolt action".

Stuff happens.
 
Friend of mine was out on training maneuvers in the military. It was raining and his platoon/whatever was moving up a muddy slope. He slipped and fell face first into the mud on top of his M16. He somehow twisted the for-end and broke the gas tube, effectively making the rifle a "bolt action".

Stuff happens.
Yes I am aware of "Stuff happens"...

That said...
I still think that these so called tests are unrealistic..
I was in the field a lot while in the army...both in training / maneuvers....as well as 4 combat tours in some sh!tty places...
And I have never seen a firearm like that...in our hands or the enemy's.
Andy

Edit to add :
All the above really means that I haven't seen it....but I still think the "tests" are unrealistic and worthless.
 

Ura-Ki

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Yes I am aware of "Stuff happens"...

That said...
I still think that these so called tests are unrealistic..
I was in the field a lot while in the army...both in training / maneuvers....as well as 4 combat tours in some sh!tty places...
And I have never seen a firearm like that...in our hands or the enemy's.
Andy

Edit to add :
All the above really means that I haven't seen it....but I still think the "tests" are unrealistic and worthless.
Agreed, at the worst, these are the absolute worst case scenarios, something very unlikely to ever experience in the Military, and even less so as a civilian!
I don't find these types of videos all that helpful, especially as they are trying extra hard to make something fail that normally wouldn't!
That said, I did have my FAL freeze up solid, one shot and it cleared it right up. Same with a Remington 1187! Walking through the snows and freezing rain tends to freeze things unless they are covered, same with sitting in a duck blind while it's sleeting sideways, and too dangerous to take the boat back to shore!
 

ilikegunspdx

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This reminds me of the real world results "tests" such as the Israelis with the Galil. My understanding is that their FALs had issues with the sand in the 6 day war and the enemy aks did not, leading to development of the galil.

I would take real people in real wars word about what is reliable before anything else cuz that is the real test and the soldiers that use them would know. As to whether their experiences make it into development of the next gun or not, I wonder if they are listened to and how much politics has a part to play there. It sounds like for the Galil the battlefield experience made it into the design of the gun.

It seems to me the mud tests like in the video are mostly a function of "how many holes are there for mud to get into". I find most data like this interesting but I use a huge and aggressive filter as to what "data" I use for my own purchases (ie which data is relevant to the things I care about). And actually a lot of the stuff I pay most attention to is real people's experiences (ie anectdotal) on reliability and other factors.
 

Ura-Ki

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This reminds me of the real world results "tests" such as the Israelis with the Galil. My understanding is that their FALs had issues with the sand in the 6 day war and the enemy aks did not, leading to development of the galil.

I would take real people in real wars word about what is reliable before anything else cuz that is the real test and the soldiers that use them would know. As to whether their experiences make it into development of the next gun or not, I wonder if they are listened to and how much politics has a part to play there. It sounds like for the Galil the battlefield experience made it into the design of the gun.

It seems to me the mud tests like in the video are mostly a function of "how many holes are there for mud to get into". I find most data like this interesting but I use a huge and aggressive filter as to what "data" I use for my own purchases (ie which data is relevant to the things I care about). And actually a lot of the stuff I pay most attention to is real people's experiences (ie anectdotal) on reliability and other factors.
Actually, the Isralies discovered the issues with the FAL were easy to deal with, they machined the rifles bolt with "Sand Cuts" which completely eliminated the sand issues! Most of which was experienced with the LMG version rather then the standard issue rifles!
 
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The newer Galils, like the ACE have less openings for debris to get into.

It may not be that "realistic", but I go with worst case scenarios - i.e., if stuff can happen, it will happen.

The rifle designers must think that debris can get into the action because they have designed infantry rifles with "dust covers"/etc., and yes, they (the military) tested the rifles in dust/sand chambers and paid attention to those issues.
 
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