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I'll have you know, this Air Force Rotor Head P.J. could shoot ANY Marine Rifle Quals, and I bet I could still out shoot the top scores of any of you crayon eaters here!
I spent more years then I care to count becoming expert in all things that go boom! ALL flight personal are REQUIRED to undergo intense Survival, Escape, and Evasion Training, and a big part of that is marksmanship, enough to qualify to the U.S Army standards at the minimum of Marksman or better, you get three tries and your out!

Okey, Braggin aside, I trained and trained, and then trained some more, my annual range time was measured in months, not hours or days. I wasn't all that good with a pistol as a Junior Sgt., so I trained and trained and trained some more, and eventually, I got kinda gooder! All that means NOTHING as a civilian really, you have a a whole different set of requirements, and that really needs more training, not so much in the shooting part, but in all the responsibilities/liabilities that follow you out your front door! I Took the time to get as much training as I could afford, and I got to where I should be at least as good as I was in the service, again, it's more the mind then the shooting, and I tried to get as much from as many instructors as I could! Ultimatly, I think one should have some training, especially if you don't shoot that much, but it shouldn't be a requirement!
 
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On a related note, there are different types of training.

Marksmanship training is good, very good, but not as essential, in my opinion. Same with tactical training and such. If a person is going to own a gun for self defense, you should be able to deploy it quickly and use it accurately, but that's on you.

The most important training, I believe, is safety. If a person has some good basic safety training, but is poorly trained in other areas, presumably they would at least know when not to shoot, as well as safe storage and basic safe gun handling.

Safety training should be "mandatory" on a personal, common-sense level, but not government mandated. In a conservative/libertarian perfect world, people would know to do the right thing without being told to. In a liberal perfect world, people would all do as they're told by law. The real world is nobody's perfect world, so there are no easy answers.
 
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What you say may be true, I was not in The Nam so I don't know. But I have read accounts of those who were there and faced human wave attacks by the VC/NVA, and stated that they were only able to save their positions from being completely overrun by being able to fire as fast as they could load on full auto. So, there's that.

Seek cover and let the criminals kill each other. Try to observe as much as possible to aid law enforcement in identifying the guilty parties. If a poorly trained "good guy with gun" decides to intervene, I would wish him good luck with that.

And if a well trained Gunnery Sergeant expert marksman and hero of Viet Nam happened to be present and started picking off the participants one by one, I would cheer him on!
Not a hero. That war was the epitome of stupid.
 
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IMO the most overlooked fundamental training is legal training, the lawful use of deadly force. Before anyone carries they should have a solid grasp of the subject.
I understand your perspective from an intellectual point of view, but I posed my theoretical situation in an attempt to get an honest reaction to that situation. In the heat of battle, The Hague convention was not usually an issue before action was taken.
 
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As to the O.P's hypothetical situation, hearing several gunshots at danger close, I'm getting my Old Broken Arse to cover and looking for exits other then the front door. I'm NOT moving to the sound of gunfire until I find no other exit but the front door, then it's game on! Getting trapped inside a box with no escape isn't gonna happen, so, I'm crab walking my squeaky crunchy joints to that exit with my gun hand at the ready, scanning the situation to determine where and how many threats I can see, then making my move to avoid contact if at all possible, if not, then gonna go loud! At this point, it should be obvious who the shooters are, and any good guys with their thumb up their jacksey, so I make verbal contact and a warning, and I boogie the hell outta there Rikky Tic! Any shootin while I am making my move gets double tapped to the snot locker, do my signature dutch roll, and I'm outta there!
 
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I understand your perspective from an intellectual point of view, but I posed my theoretical situation in an attempt to get an honest reaction to that situation.
from only a tactical or martial point of view?



Now what do you do if you come out of the local MiniMart just as a bad guy has already fired several rounds at a member of an opposing gang, race, ethnic minority, political party or ??? Suppose a concerned citizen aged 47 years old, with no training, carrying a Glock 19 with a high capacity magazine, decides that he will intervene in this dispute and fire some shots of his own. What do you do, as a well trained concealed carry permitted bystander?
run away.
 
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I found a way to make my creaky joints and round, 69-ish self avoid danger without intense training and constant swivel-headed vigilance ....

1669704895972.png
 
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If firearms training needs to be a mandate it should be mandatory in elementary school for multiple grades, not to exercise a right like this BS 114 . Can you imagine the plummet in negligent shootings if the 4 basic rules of gun safety were drilled in the little one's heads? A few little "advanced" things like, just because you remove a magazine there may still a round in the chamber and for those that can count past four, maybe throw in the old 10 NRA gun safety rules.
 
In response to original question--
The situation was already too complicated for me with two gangs one of whom was shooting at the other but might have been defending themselves against an ambush for all I know. And the gang member shooter might be an undercover cop for all I know.. I'd focus on getting my @$$ and all other parts of myself I value out of there as quickly as possible, and without drawing my EDC, which might get me shot by a gang member, any armed good guy present, or by a cop when one appears. By the time you add in a supposed armed good guy the situation is beyond impossible. There would be no way to tell the theoretical armed good guy from the gang members or a plant of some kind, potentially a bad guy.

My MO will always be to stay out of it unless I totally understand the situation or feel I have no choice. And to withdraw from the area if possible so there's one less person for the cops to get confused over. And so I don't get arrested and held as a suspect or even a witness. Or have my EDC confiscated for who knows how long, maybe forever these days. If I think I saw anything useful I'll call cops once I'm out of the scene and can interact with L.E. by phone and/or without my EDC present.

However, one can feel one has no choice. Once while sleeping in a rooming house in Cambridge MA when I was a first year grad student I heard a woman's scream suddenly cut off. It came from the parking lot behind the building. Next thing I remember I'm dressed, small .22 pistol in my pocket, running down the stairs. And experiencing a profound sense of surprise at discovering I had no choice. I realized I had no idea how many men had attacked the woman or how they were armed and that I could be going to get myself killed. But it didn't seem to matter. I realized fully in that instant that sooner or later I would die. And if I died then, that way, I would be defending the very essence of civilization. And that would be a good way to die. As it turned out, it was just a single man attacking the woman. I chased him away by bringing my feet down hard but taking small steps so I sounded like a huge man approaching fast rather than a slender young woman approaching slow. He ran. I never even had to draw the gun.
 
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IMO the most overlooked fundamental training is legal training, the lawful use of deadly force. Before anyone carries they should have a solid grasp of the subject.
I have to go with immediate action medical being the most overlooked and more likely to be used.
"Right of Bang" does not have a strong emphasis from what I've seen.

Thank you, ye olde crusty gunny for bringing up questions I hadn't thought of. My first thoughts on the scenario was if I wanted to aid the good guy with a gun with a "high capacity" magazine in the first place. I assumed this meant a 33rd mag so I envisioned the whole bad boi decked out in Punisher logo's deal. DA would frown about it no matter when he got his mags. Having been in uncomfortable situations before I would likely seek cover until the shooting stopped so I could render aid to the innocent(s) hit.
 
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If, as some speculate, the training for the everyday homeowner with a CHL should involve extensive two way range time, I doubt that any citizen would be allowed to own a firearm. Seems we go through this whole thing every 5 years or so and nobody actually changes their minds. Can't tell you how many gun owners I've run into that advocate for the training requirements of 114. Absolutely none of them can come to an agreement about how much training is required for a firefight.
 
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If firearms training needs to be a mandate it should be mandatory in elementary school for multiple grades, not to exercise a right like this BS 114 . Can you imagine the plummet in negligent shootings if the 4 basic rules of gun safety were drilled in the little one's heads?
Back in 2019 someone introduced a basic safety class in schools but the Democrat majority shot it down.
They didnt want to promote gun culture.

It was a kids safety class... "Stop, dont touch, tell an adult" kind of stuff.

The antis dont care about whats right, or safety....
 
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I'm crab walking my squeaky crunchy joints to that exit with my gun hand at the ready, scanning the situation to determine where and how many threats I can see, then making my move to avoid contact if at all possible, if not, then gonna go loud!
I'm right behind you, brother. Except my creaky old joints might give us away.
 
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If firearms training needs to be a mandate it should be mandatory in elementary school for multiple grades, not to exercise a right like this BS 114 . Can you imagine the plummet in negligent shootings if the 4 basic rules of gun safety were drilled in the little one's heads? A few little "advanced" things like, just because you remove a magazine there may still a round in the chamber and for those that can count past four, maybe throw in the old 10 NRA gun safety rules.
The left will throw a fit at the tiniest mention of abstinence in sex education, but they demand complete abstinence when it comes to things like firearms.

“They’re all going to do it, you can’t stop them” (partly but not entirely true btw, but that’s beside the point).

When it comes to guns though, they put the blinders on. Whether they’re around guns or not, every kid should be taught the basics of firearm safety- what to do, and especially NOT do if they encounter a gun.
 
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The real issue that all the politicians and most liberals are terrified to address is that one particular racial minority is responsible for most of the gun violence. They can dance around it all they want, but all they're doing is avoiding the real issue. Guns, even loaded ones are simply a tool. A baseball bat can be used to hit a baseball or a human head. The human being that is handling the firearm or baseball bat determines how and when it is used. Inanimate objects can't make a decision.
 

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