No Rights for those under 21 in Cali now

[Stomper]

I just got done doing a thread clean up here...
Can we all please:
Refrain from making comments that break forum rules...
Or cause ill will towards others , who may think differently....
Thank you.
Andy

At this hour you probably have a huge mug o' java next to you and you're wearing your furry buckskin slippers.... huh?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

At this hour you probably have a huge mug o' java next to you and you're wearing your furry buckskin slippers.... huh?

Yep...Nothing but the best when doing my MOD duties....
Andy

 

[American123]

View attachment 506379

I'm okay with it, with some caveats. Here's why. LEO's and military both get exhaustive firearms training. Most civilians do not. Now any 18-20 year old LEO or military member or other profession with this training should be exempt and able to purchase any legal firearm/ammo. My state {Washington} has no requirement for firearms class or proficiency for purchase other than background check. I understand there are some states that do. I applaud them for doing so.
It is well established the brain is not fully developed as far as the ability to understand consequences of action until early to mid 20's. One can assume LEO or military training helps in this regard. Let's hope so.

The average 18-20 year old is ill equipped for the responsibility of firearms ownership. I'm not talking about the youth who was brought up hunting or with competitive shooting sports. These individuals could challenge a pre-requisite class and successfully perform a proficiency evaluation. And if successful be issued a wallet card or other document, similar to the process of obtaining a drivers license in Washington state. A perfect system? No. A step in the right direction? I believe so.

As always, your comments opinions and constructive criticisms are welcome.

I vehemently disagree that 18-20 year olds who are not in police or military service should be denied their constitutional right.

If you think that way you are spitting on the millions and millions and millions of 18-20 year olds who grew up shooting rifles and pistols with their family many from the time they were 4-12 years old. Most of those kids are better shots, respect the tool, and understand firearm safety better than any 'boot' out of basic and many 'trained' adults.

The average 18-20 year old is most definitely equipped to handle this responsibility, just less so in big cities where most are liberals with upbringings that didn't involve any firearm experience.

This 'brain isn't fully developed' argument is complete BS, look at the liberal left today, there are fully grown men and women who despite their ages being past 21 still don't have fully developed brains and are so delusional or moronic that it's a moot point. It's a matter of the individual, not a collective whole based on a particular age group. If gun laws that are already on the books were actually enforced and sentenced accordingly we wouldn't have the constant repeat offender gang problems we do which is the largest source of firearm violence in this country.

Firearms have been owned by 18-20 year olds for the past 240 years in this country and somehow magically in 2018 that age group can't handle that responsibility. What a crock of crap.

 

[Mark W.]

Leave CA for first year of college come back with a rifle.

 

[notazombie]

In this day and age I view (mostly ill-informed) 18-20 year olds as being much more dangerous in a voting booth than at a gun range.

 

[nammac]

As many have stated, if at 18 one can be tapped to serve in the military or as an LEO, then one should also be allowed to own firearms. This I agree with, no question.

Having said that, I know many 18 year olds through my oldest daughter being in that age category, and having spent time with them, I do find the majority to display a reasonable level of responsibility.

Now on the subject of politics, I'd agree, I'd rather see the voting age moved to 21, mainly for maturity of political thought and to have an opportunity to experience the real world and the impact extreme political views have on it...

At 18, there's just different priorities and their political view can be easily swayed. I feel they should form their own political beliefs and foundations and understand why they believe what they believe, before they get to make political choices.

Just my opinions, worth every penny paid for them...

 

[ma96782]

maybe someone should ask publicly, in front of cameras, at the Capitols in these states, if they believe 18-20 year olds should not be asked to serve in the duties of Police/LEO and Military. Then we will see their true colors

After all; the eligible age to enter Military and Police/LEO service is currently 18, correct?
If 18-20 year old adults are not responsible enough to be afforded the right to own guns, maybe they are not responsible enough to be afforded the right to enter armed service as Police personnel or Military personnel?

If the Politicians disagree that 18-20 is too young to enter the LEO service and Military service, then ask them why do they want to send young adults to die in service for the citizens and civilians ?

FYI. I was allowed to join the PD (at 20 in my case, as a "Cadet") but, I wasn't a full fledged police officer until after I passed the academy and was sworn in. Then.....I could carry as a Police Officer.

That being said......I see your point. Too bad, some Anti-American politicians don't.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....because I suspect....it was a handgun thing.

BUT, that being said.....carving out rights for certain people due mainly because of their occupation (or status) is....IMHO, Un-American.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

I don't know! What I want to know, on top of your question is, What about Dad or Grand Dad who have given a rifle as a gift??!? I got my first at the age of 12, and not some .22 but a real rifle, what about all the hundreds of thousands who got a rifle as a gift?

got my 03-A3 at age 10. im 30 now, never killed anyone and still have it. my 4.5YO son became a gun owner the day he was born so...

by the time i was 18 i had a whole handful of guns. my parents and grandparents beat gun safety into me as a young boy. never had one negligent anything.... in only 30 but it seems like the term "different times" apply here.

 

[Boboclown]

Thanka for the well written post first off, but since we are discussing age and it's the subject of a class Im taking I'd love to hear opinions on whether anyone has an opinion on older aged adults owning firearms/voting dependent on mental faculties, etc.

I'm fine with anyone who isn't suffering from a severe mental disorder owning a gun. Regardless of how far they are in age.

However, if one wants to raise the age limit to own a gun, then in turn they have to want an age where they can no longer own a gun as the argument is based on brain development. Which in turn goes both ways, it develops as you reach maturity, and deteriorates afterwards. I don't want either one, I'm just saying you can't just have a double standard and expect it to be fine. Just as the brain develops, it too deteriorate. Its just the nature of life, so can't have one without the other when using an argument such as that.

Which is why raising the age limit is inane.

 

[ma96782]

View attachment 506379

I'm okay with it, with some caveats. Here's why. LEO's and military both get exhaustive firearms training. Most civilians do not. Now any 18-20 year old LEO or military member or other profession with this training should be exempt and able to purchase any legal firearm/ammo. My state {Washington} has no requirement for firearms class or proficiency for purchase other than background check. I understand there are some states that do. I applaud them for doing so.
It is well established the brain is not fully developed as far as the ability to understand consequences of action until early to mid 20's. One can assume LEO or military training helps in this regard. Let's hope so.

The average 18-20 year old is ill equipped for the responsibility of firearms ownership. I'm not talking about the youth who was brought up hunting or with competitive shooting sports. These individuals could challenge a pre-requisite class and successfully perform a proficiency evaluation. And if successful be issued a wallet card or other document, similar to the process of obtaining a drivers license in Washington state. A perfect system? No. A step in the right direction? I believe so.

As always, your comments opinions and constructive criticisms are welcome.

Either you're a FREE American or you aren't.

Having to ask permission, to exercise a RIGHT, is not an example of being a FREE American.

What if.......
You were required to pass a background check to attend church?

Too many Terrorist attending certain places of worship. So it's justifiable to require this.

You were required to undergo a background and content of speech check before you were allowed to speak in public?

Too many people lying, practicing and preaching hate speech. So this is justifiable.

You were required to submit your writings for govt approval before publication?

Too many people writing hateful words, lying and making others feel uncomfortable. So, this is justifiable.

You were charged a privilege license fee to do any of the above?

Call it a "user fee" (not a tax) and it's all justifiable......hey, it's about SAFETY.



Aloha, Mark

PS.....carving out rights for certain people due mainly because of their occupation (or status) is IMHO....Un-American.

 

[ma96782]

I'm fine with anyone who isn't suffering from a severe mental disorder owning a gun. Regardless of how far they are in age.

If they are severely mentally ill (AKA : dangerous to himself or others)......they shouldn't be walking the streets.

But my fear extends to......

"All gun owners are potential murderers. Only the police and military needs guns."

Aloha, Mark

 

[Boboclown]

If they are severely mentally ill (AKA : dangerous to himself or others)......they shouldn't be walking the streets.

But my fear extends to......

If the Dems could even begin to think that TRUMP was mentally illl (severe or otherwise) and wanted to impeach him on that basis.......then, any gun owner could also be subject to being labeled, "Mentally Ill." You know.......

"All gun owners are potential murderers. Only the police and military needs guns."



Aloha, Mark

Of course they shouldn't be on the streets. But they are.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

OP...im 30.i was raised on a farm around guns by my parents and grandparents. guns always been a part of my life. they are a tool.

i know its been said already but as an American, firearm ownership is a RIGHT. not a privledge. not just a constutional right but a natural right to self defense. if a bad guy wants to kill me with a gun best damn believe i wanna have a gun to protect myself and my family. the law does not matter to criminals and they will find a way to violent no matter what the age of firearm ownership is.

we need to enforce the laws we have already instead of punish good people for the wrong doing of bad people. i believe in harsher punishment for crime involving firearms.

i believe at 18, a law abiding American citizen who is now considered an adult should be able to own whatever they want. although, IMO any age restriction is an infringement on our constutional rights but thats a whole different discussion. honestly, i think the legal drinking age should be 18 as well. if you are old enough for serving our country(unfortunately i was unable to due to physical issues) then youre old enough to buy a gun.

WE are one of the last if not ONLY countries with protected free speech/the ability to believe whatever we wanna believe and be who we wanna be, protection against unlawful search and seizure, protection against self incrimination, the right to a fair trial... all possible BECAUSE we have the right to keep and bear arms. without this, our gov would be too powerful on the verge of tyranny. i for one, as well as many others want as little of the .govs hand in my life as possible.

im a registered republican for voting purposes only. im neither republican or democrat. i think theres crazies on both sides. i like to think of myself as right leaning but i dont agree with ALL conservative values. i just am who i am. an American.

 

[Jcon268]

If they are severely mentally ill (AKA : dangerous to himself or others)......they shouldn't be walking the streets.

But my fear extends to......

If the Dems could even begin to think that TRUMP was mentally illl (severe or otherwise) and wanted to impeach him on that basis.......then, any gun owner could also be subject to being labeled, "Mentally Ill." You know.......

"All gun owners are potential murderers. Only the police and military needs guns."



Aloha, Mark

The litmus for who is or isn't mentally fit to own a gun is an age old debate. Usually that litmus is provided by the government which is the very reason we have the 2A. Don't forget that any selection of criteria for mental fitness will come with protest for being racist, sexist or exclusive of a particular class. This is the way it usually works now.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

As many have stated, if at 18 one can be tapped to serve in the military or as an LEO, then one should also be allowed to own firearms. This I agree with, no question.

Having said that, I know many 18 year olds through my oldest daughter being in that age category, and having spent time with them, I do find the majority to display a reasonable level of responsibility.

Now on the subject of politics, I'd agree, I'd rather see the voting age moved to 21, mainly for maturity of political thought and to have an opportunity to experience the real world and the impact extreme political views have on it...

At 18, there's just different priorities and their political view can be easily swayed. I feel they should form their own political beliefs and foundations and understand why they believe what they believe, before they get to make political choices.

Just my opinions, worth every penny paid for them...

IMO(and this will never happen lol) i think one should be able to vote after working for 5-10 years, owns property and pays taxes. i guarantee things would be different.

 

[ma96782]

Of course they shouldn't be on the streets. But they are.

Right. So, that is why we need/should have the discretion to carry (w/o attaching BS lic. requirements).

As it currently is........the Govt has little to no interest in seeing to your personal security.

Afterall, the Govt. has a hand in the early release of prisoners that go on to commit more crimes and illegals (should have been deported) who kill and injure American Citizens, etc, etc, etc...... If, you were a victim of such a Govt. action.......YOU, the Law Abiding American Citizen......will be severely limited in filing or being successful in a law suit against the Govt.

Mind you that, I'm not saying the the Govt. will ever be totally perfect. The Govt is only there for the, "general security". I can see that. But, it's still chilling to note that some politicians......still refuse to pass laws (or repeal laws) that would allow me to carry as a FREE American.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

The litmus for who is or isn't mentally fit to own a gun is an age old debate. Usually that litmus is provided by the government which is the very reason we have the 2A. Don't forget that any selection of criteria for mental fitness will come with protest for being racist, sexist or exclusive of a particular class. This is the way it usually works now.

Unfortunately, the litmus test didn't apply/extend to me paying for the privilege of a LIC. in order to carry concealed. Call it a "user fee" or "poll tax".......if you like. And, IMHO....that extends to the BGC fees.

Seems to me that the Govt. could raise the fee at any time (once we get use to it). When will there be a backlash? When we are charged $500 for a CCW or BGC? LIBERALS (the Dems) aren't stupid. You give them an inch and they'll take a yard.

But they'll probably just say that I'm displaying paranoia about my RIGHTS and guns. And thus, subject to the label of, "mentally ill".

Oh wait......I haven't paid my Govt. fee/lic. to post on the internet.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Caveman Jim]

How about a NRA class in high school? In NC we tried to pass a law to make gun safety a class for high school. Doubt that's gonna go anywhere with a democrat as the governor.

That was taken away, I had a small arms safety class during elementary school in Fayetteville during the mid-late 60's!

A lot happened in schools during the 70's after the hippie invasions in America.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Yikes, so you want indentured workers that eventually earn the right to vote, who I guess will have made enough money to own land in that time, and pay taxes but have no say on how taxes are spent by voting. That's fascim.

no, i want people to be educated about "real life" and not what looks good on paper and how sh!tty it is to have to pay for all the govt handouts. im sorry, but im NOT ok with paying for peoples food stamps when i was the one bagging their groceries then loading it into their brand new range rover while theyre talking on their cell phone. im NOT ok with drug addicts able to get CASH from their EBT cards either.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

what im saying is, i didnt know jack about the real world until i worked and say a large chunk of my paycheck go to BS. and i really didnt know jack about anything until i became a homeowner and saw where all my property taxes go.

i still dont know jack.