No replacement for placement - 9mm compact kills angry brown bear

[41Slinger]

Timothy lived with the bears for 10 summers, then he brought his girlfriend and lived 28 more days. Hungry bear smells the air. JMHO

 

[U8395279]

It just goes to show that regardless of the animal, one that is starving will do anything to survive. It is a simple survival instinct and expecting any animal, even humans, to go against their base survival instincts is just ignoring basic science, not to mention stupid and naive.

There is an audio recording of their deaths. He had a video camera with him, and while he dropped it during the encounter, and it recorded no video of their ordeal, its microphone still managed to record their yelling and screaming.

Only some brief descriptions of what was in the recording were made public in the GRIZZLY MAN documentary about his life made by Werner Herzog. One can hear Treadwell yell: " BAD BEAR " several times to the starving Grizzly, as it got closer and closer, as if he could reason with the starving animal.

Reportedly you can hear his agonizing death screams, as the Grizzly began to consume his legs and his lower torso while he was still alive. The Grizzly did not bother to kill him, before it began to eat him. When they found his body, both of his legs had been totally stripped to the bone. And sadly, despite his pleas for her to flee, his girlfriend stayed nearby, and ended up being tracked down and killed by the Grizzly too. You can hear her on the tape yelling to Treadwell for him to fight back.

However, Treadwell was so totally ignorant and unknowledgeable about Grizzly behavior, that he thought that by playing dead, that the animal would then leave him alone. Yet, for years he had passed himself off as being an expert on Grizzlies, despite never having any education in biology or wildlife past High School.

He was an ordinary B student in High School, but people say that he began to show signs of mental illness when he went to college, making up false claims about being from Australia, or being an orphan from England. He even eventually changed his last name from Dexter to Treadwell, in order to come across more as being English or Australian. He was an avid swimmer and diver, and had obtained an athletic scholarship to attend college. However, a diving accident injured his back, and he could not longer compete, and he thus lost his scholarship, and never finished college.

Treadwell began to abuse alcohol and also became a heroin addict. He had no major run ins with the law, other than totaling his family's station wagon while guilty of DUI. He left home after that, and drifted to southern California, and worked on reinventing himself, often through the use of lies.

He appeared on numerous TV shows as being a Grizzly Expert, and was interviewed by David Letterman and Jay Leno. The Discovery and Disney channels even did TV documentaries about his life living among the Grizzlies. He even conned wealthy well known celebrities like actor Leonardo DiCaprio and supermodel Gisele Bundchen to fund his "research" among the Grizzlies.

In the end, though, the man who claimed that he knew Grizzlies better than anyone else, actually turned out to be a fraud and a fool.

.

 

[U8395279]

Timothy lived with the bears for 10 summers, then he brought his girlfriend and lived 28 more days. Hungry bear smells the air. JMHO

What the investigation into his death determined was that Treadwell stayed way later his last summer in Katmai, than he did in previous summers. He died on Oct 3rd, and it was already starting to get quite cold.

While the other local Grizzlies that lived along the river estuary where he was located were well fed, a new Bear showed up that came from inland, and he was emaciated and starving. With winter about to start, and the salmon run over, that bear was extremely desperate to get calories to help him put on fat to get through the winter. Getting meat to eat was basically a life or death matter for that bear.

So that is the reason why Treadwell died his last year. It had nothing at all to do with his girlfriend being with him. That bear was absolutely desperate for food.

Treadwell died due to his own blunders and ignorance.

.

 

[Larrytpdx]

I just read the Treadwell story . . .

There is also a video documentary about him that is very interesting.

 

[BlackRyder]

The Buffalo Bore 9mm hardcast is a very impressive load, but he was fortunate the bear turned and ran after a few shots.

I use the buffalo bore hard cast rounds in both 9mm and .357 in my woods guns. I only have to worry about black bears though. and the occasional meth zombie.

 

[mrblond]

They always say how dangerous a moose is. i hear from those that live up in Alaska year round, the worst is a grizz that wakes up early from hibernation. they will attack, kill and eat anything.

I also remember the story of that Inuit woman who dropped a Polar bear with a .22. y'all are so very correct about shot placement.

 

[The Heretic]

The moose is dangerous because so many people buy dogs to protect themselves from bears.

Why does that make a moose dangerous?

What is the most numerous natural enemy of a moose?

The wolf.

What do a lot of dogs look like?

A wolf.

The moose doesn't know most dogs from wolves.

How does a moose defend itself and its calves from wolves?

It stomps them.

People take their dogs out for walks and get stomped by moose.

Every year that they have run the sled races, one or more sled teams get stomped by a moose.

In this case, it is the mistaken impression that people need to have a dog to protect themselves from bear attacks that gets people killed by moose.

The other danger from moose is hitting them with a car/truck - this happens a lot and due to the size of the moose, some people die.

 

[41Slinger]

It's been a long time, but the video that I saw was done by the pilot who left them and then returned to pick them up and found the site if I remember correctly. In the video, I remember them talking about the fact that they had set their camp in the middle of the only access to the river for quit a stretch. The other thing I remember was Timothy had video of the bear that attacked them the day before the attack, the bear was behind him and in the video he called the bear Mr. Grumpy. Yeah the girl thing was just a guess, no fact, one major difference to his other trips. My bad.

 

[Koda]

I agree shot placement is everything... and with that, the 9mm did not kill the bear. There are a lot of things that can be done but statistically do not add up in your favor and a 9mm for grizz is one of them.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[The Heretic]

 

[gimpy51]

I bought a Ruger Super Blackhawk, 44mag, 7.5" barrel back in 1970ish. Still go to it if I'm going to be where I might have a problem enough to need it. I just can't imagine being out where the bigger, much more dangerous species are and choosing my G19, thinking that I have enough in a pinch.

On the other hand, I guess one could say, he had enough.

 

[mjbskwim]

I bought a Ruger Super Blackhawk, 44mag, 7.5" barrel back in 1970ish. Still go to it if I'm going to be where I might have a problem enough to need it. I just can't imagine being out where the bigger, much more dangerous species are and choosing my G19, thinking that I have enough in a pinch.

On the other hand, I guess one could say, he had enough.

People,including me,make jokes about the 9mm but it will kill humans and has. It wasn't developed as a killing round but has become that with new bullet designs
Blah blah blah
Still wouldn't rely on it for the woods.
Yours truly ,while fondling my 10 mm,
Mikey

 

[Blastin]

I found this interesting.
I was on a climbing expedition earlier this year and unexpectedly came across a black bear. Wasn't thinking about bear while packing for the trip so I didn't have anything other than the Glock27 (Glock's subcompact .40) I always have. Luckily for everyone the bear and I just smiled at each other and walked away slowly, but I was prepared to use the 27.
I figured at the range we were at I could probably place headshots but even with that I wasn't sure how it'd work. Glad I didn't have to find out, but it made reading this way more personal.

 

[Mark Torrence]

The one thing that seems to have gone unnoticed in the discussion about the guide shooting the bear with a 9mm seems to be keeping your head! MANY folks would just go totally useless in this scenario and do really stupid deadly stuff. Believe me I have seen it many times in my profession. Under extreme life threatening stress many just completely shut down and cease to function. This fellow on the other hand kept on THINKING and acting appropriately placing his shots carefully. THAT is where correct shot placement comes from and THAT is what will save your life.

 

[IIDX]

Why Shot Placement Is Critical (aka How To Kill a Raging Grizzly With a 9mm) | Prepared Gun Owners

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And don't ask me why an outfitter was only carrying a 9mm, the article doesn't say.

I'm sure he would have carried something besides a 9mm, but old age is probably getting the best of him. Don't know why he's carrying a single stack.

 

[gimpy51]

I'm betting the farm his level of stress at "that time" is and would be far different than mine, being where he is and what he does for a living. I'd be happy to have him leading my butt anywhere.

 

[Quackerbacker]

I spend a lot of time in the outdoors and my firearm choice reflects the highly unlikely possibility of defending myself from the extremely rare black bear that attacks a human or a cat. My "compromise" cartridge is 357 sig with a good penetrating 147.

 

[The Heretic]

I have .357s, but my fav all around cartridge is the .44 mag.

I have 165 gr. defensive loads that are okay in my 329PD, and 300 grain bear defense loads that are a pain to shoot, but are pretty good for the weight of the 329PD.

To do better IMO, I would have to carry my 460V, which is almost twice as heavy as the 329, but is twice as powerful as the .44 mag, and 3 times as powerful as the .357 mag.

So black bear gun - .357 mag with 180 grain loads.

Brown bear gun - .44 mag with 300 grain loads

Polar bear gun - .460 mag with 395 grain loads

 

[Quackerbacker]

Looks like you're good to go The Heretic.

When i lived in Alaska, after my first unarmed run-in with a Brownie, i carried a pistol gripped mossberg mariner in 12ga using .00 buck and slugs along with a super redhawk in .44 mag. I found the reality of facing a Brown bear who had absolutely nothing stopping him from killing me should he so choose not to my liking. I knew the chances of a violent encounter to be pretty slim, but for an unfortunate few (as this story illustrates) when their chances go to 100% they live or die by the insurance they buy.