Nightmare firearms sale and jerk FFL

[Joe Link]

David, you know you have my support 100%. I also know David personally and I would not hesitate to vouch for him in any way I can. I really appreciate you sharing this here as well; hopefully we can all learn from it.

I also wanted to tell everyone how proud I am that so many are rallying behind one of our own. Like Silver Fox said, this is shaping up to be a true community, which is what I had envisioned all along

 

[braves765]

Has anyone checked out (Sam's Shooters Emporium) website? Go to the website and click on the (about sams) tab, scroll down to the last little pic. I couldn't believe that when I saw it. I'm sure Kimber would be interested in their web design. Very professional business. Good luck PPP, I don't know you, but you seem like a very good guy from this end.







Liberals are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs

 

[Weebs]

Has anyone checked out (Sam's Shooters Emporium) website? Go to the website and click on the (about sams) tab, scroll down to the last little pic. I couldn't believe that when I saw it. I'm sure Kimber would be interested in their web design. Very professional business. Good luck PPP, I don't know you, but you seem like a very good guy from this end.

hahhahahahahahaa great catch!!!!!!! I screenshotted it just in case he reads this and removes it!

 

[PhysicsGuy]

Looking at Sam's Shooters Emporium prices, most of their stuff is very overpriced in my opinion, combined with a visibly poor costumer service, I don't know how they stay afloat. I plan on moving to Arizona sometime in the future, and I will be adding this place to my "do not buy" list.

 

[Gunner3456]

Has anyone checked out (Sam's Shooters Emporium) website? Go to the website and click on the (about sams) tab, scroll down to the last little pic. I couldn't believe that when I saw it. I'm sure Kimber would be interested in their web design. Very professional business. Good luck PPP, I don't know you, but you seem like a very good guy from this end.

 

[Siglvr]

I don't know anything about Sam's Shooters Emporium but what I've read here, truthfully, they may be fine folks and none of us know it. I don't mean to tear them all up and get all mean towards them, I just hope they consider the internal policy they have that has allowed this transaction to mess up 2 people and stop everything in it's tracks and I hope that they do so real soon though. It's just not right.

Good luck with it!

 

[rodell]

Although our tuxedo-clad feathered friend wandered into the melting polar ice cap in Arizona, most of these transfers go smoothly. For those of you who are now only going to do FTF, you're depriving those of us who live further away!

I've shipped and received many times, without issue. I might consider using an outgoing FFL, since I seem to get the bulk rate!

Bob

 

[Torqk911]

Thanks for posting that. I was looking all around for it.

 

[treemanx]

Good luck with this Playboy, sounds like a real headache. I think it's safe to say that you've got the support of the site with you on this one! Although I've never met you before, I have chatted with you several times here and I don't believe that you would have misrepresented yourself in this situation in any way. This guy is trying to say that you claimed to be an FFL to cover his butt IMO. I hate people like this, who apparently has nothing better to do than cause people grief. Best of luck to you again PB.

And to Sams Emporium of BS:

Shh. Listen. Do you hear that?


*silence*


That's the sound of no one giving a ****.


*cue angry reply*


Huh. There it is again.

 

[Trlsmn]

Firstly, I am the so-called Jerk FFL by the self proclaimed unlicensed gun dealer "penguin". Just about every statement made by him is false. He was informed that we only acceopt firearms from licensed FFL's which he assured us he was. He is not! He was never treated with anything but respect until he Mike Foxtroted my employee Pam. We cannot return a firearm to a non-licensee unless, "it was sent for repair or refinishing". It was not. Penguin has stated that he sells several handguns weekly and never uses an FFL. I would like for him to state that to his local BATF agent. We are one of the two largest gunshops in AZ. We are audited frequently and always pass with flying colors. That is public record and I will supply my agents number if so desired. We are Title 1, Class 2 and class 3 as well as class 72. I know the law and besides knowing the law, our store policy has always been not to accept firearms from non-licensee's for this exact reason. I will not be out $30.00 to return the gun to a non FFL, Look at our records on auctionarms, ebay *********** several times to get a resolution but all we get is ********** is my @#$%$%^^& FFL get one from him!" I cannot find anyone named ********** in the phone book or on DEX. I think he is a fabrication of *************who hides behind 'Penguin' in the same way he hides behind his answering machine and screens his calls. Put up our shut up ***************

Well since you took the time to smear a well respected member let me just call your eBay and Auction Arms bluff:

eBay 13 negatives 4 neutrals

I picked out two consecutive negatives from the same buyer, can anyone spot the lie in the rebuttals?

Negative feedback rating I asked about refunding the overcharge on shipping, seller is very rude-hatefull
suzy_70
Nov-13-09 10:14


Reply by s.luke (Dec-01-09 19:18):
Never heard from 'SUZY', never talked to her, total crock of whooey!

New Britian Ratchet 1/2" Driver 15" Long Made In U.S.A. (#330354867192)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
US $8.50 View Item
Negative feedback rating shipped both auctions in one box, but charged full shipping, 25.90 flat rate box
suzy_70
Nov-13-09 10:14
Reply by s.luke (Dec-01-09 19:19):
Initially asked for a reminder when invoiced, never got one FFFFFFFF-------

New Britian Swivel Ratchet 3/8" Driver 11" Long U.S.A (#330354870051)

Funny that several of the negatives the buyers also called him Rude and a Jerk.

Continued in the next post.

 

[Trlsmn]

He called one lady a Puta in his rebuttal and look at these kind and professional words from him:

Negative Feedback for s.luke

If you would like to edit or delete feedback you've posted on s.luke, or if you are s.luke, you must be logged in. You can only edit or delete feedback if you're the poster, and you have just three days after posting to do so.

Buyer: doaljo (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 11/20/2008 at 18:37:12
Auction: 8810351
Comments: Fraud! Scammer! Listed gun's pictures did not reflect the true manufacturer. Pictures showed the name Hi-Standard, but not Armscor, an importer. The gun was listed as Hi-Standard. Stay away from this seller. Five negatives this year is not a good sign. Seller is desperate to rip you off.
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 11/21/2008 at 23:10:30
Rebuttal: Yeah, five negatives and four hundred positives. Since when was it a state secret that Hi Standards were made in the philipines? Serious nut case! FFFFFFFFFFFFF
Buyer: sleazyrider (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 11/20/2008 at 01:49:33
Auction: 8875570
Comments: After winning auction and paying by credit card for item and providing a FFL, seller reneged by claiming this item (listed in "very good" condition) had a cracked frame, and they could not go through with the sale. Yeah, right. So much for a "binding contract." A very bad experience.
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 11/20/2008 at 06:04:53
Rebuttal: So if you want the broken gun, its OK by me! Let me know and I'll ship it to you BUT you are buying a BROKEN, non-repairable gun, NO RETURN! Let me know. Sorry its such a BAD EXPERIENCE, I should just quit worrying about people getting hurt I guess!
Buyer: Rotto (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 11/05/2008 at 18:45:03
Auction: 8861638
Comments: Dishonest---did not disclose additional fees until after auction closed. Rude when asked, lied that it was on auction site. Surly in correspondence, unresolved personal problems with "Californians." Cut off the sale arbitrarily with no other recourse. Check other negative feedback---similar.
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 11/06/2008 at 06:48:06
Rebuttal: -- Rebuttal removed by Auction Arms staff --
Buyer: XpressGuns (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 09/15/2008 at 13:59:30
Auction: 8749994
Comments: Sold me a gun listed as excellent condition but was actually in poor condition. He did refund my money after a length time but shorted me the $70 I paid for shipping.
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 09/15/2008 at 14:50:33
Rebuttal: Total crock of malarky, gun was in vg to excellent condition, READ THE RULES. Auctionarms does not provide for shopping ON APPROVAL. FFFF
Buyer: Javier (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 05/09/2008 at 14:16:30
Auction: 8533661
Comments: Received rifle but was missing the magazine. Spoke to Bob and was assured they would rectify. Never received the mag so I spoke to owner who refused to send mag. Stay away from these folks as they are thieves!
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 05/09/2008 at 21:14:35
Rebuttal: Let me see, took one month to pay, bubblegumed because he had to pay sales tax (gee I wish I could skip the tax) b.s.'d about the so-called missing mag. It was in there when we packed the gun! Low life sniveling whiner! FFFFFFFF! I think the mag scam is just his way of recouping the sales tax...........
Buyer: SPIKE111 (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 06/16/2007 at 10:44:35
Auction: 7924102
Comments: Received barrel with deep to shallow machining tool marks in bore starting at receiver end. returned barrel to seller. After much delay received payment for purchase price only. Yes Sam I do know difference between thds for choke and tool marks.Caution read sellers answers to feedback,never wrong.
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 06/16/2007 at 11:34:31
Rebuttal: Yes YOU were and are wrong and a coward to boot, the barrel was scoped and there are NO tool marks in the barrel, just reflections from the choke cut, money was refunded. Note: WHINE111 waited til time was up to give neg. feedback. You are right, we are seldom wrong, we are CAREFUL. FFFFFFF---
Buyer: RS1028 (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 11/01/2005 at 20:17:01
Auction: 6980106
Comments: Wanted $51 for shipping and Paypal fees.Asked for a refund so I could send a money order and save the $27 paypal fee he charges and he has failed to either refund or ship my gun. He has my $654 and my gun. Buyers Beware! 11-02-05 STILL HAS MY MONEY AND IS RE- SELLING THE GUN I PAID $654 FOR?
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 11/02/2005 at 07:11:08
Rebuttal: Gun has been re-listed, you have been banned from our auctions, I cant support your hobbies. If you had a problem, a month ago was the time and place for discussion. The fees that go with the sale were in the billing at time of sale. Keep your Money order, I'll sell the gun.
Buyer: samicrokq (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 03/23/2005 at 08:45:13
Auction: 6524438
Comments: I was the only bidder and won. When seller finally contacted me, he said that he had oversold item by 4 or 5 units. The only problem was I needed the product I bid on and won. Now he states I was in the WRONG ?? Buyers Beware!!
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 03/23/2005 at 09:11:24
Rebuttal: -- Rebuttal removed by Auction Arms staff --
Buyer: sparbs (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 06/22/2004 at 11:05:44
Auction: 5749517
Comments: The description of the condition of the box of ammo stated "Box has a couple minor dents, ammo bright and shiny". When I received the box of ammo in the mail the Legendary Frontiersman box had a one inch cut in the box. Not my idea of a couple of minor dents!
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 06/22/2004 at 17:04:27
Rebuttal: THIS THIS IS THE FIRST I HEARD OF HIS PROBLEM, AS YOU CAN SEE, I POSTED HIM A POSITIVE AND HAD HE LET ME KNOW, I WOULD HAVE REPLACED HIS BOX OF AMMO AT MY COST AND FILED A POSTAL CLAIM FOR THE DAMAGE.
Buyer: crager (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 10/14/2002 at 18:23:07
Auction: 3222406
Comments: Gun bore was described as "sharp and shiny" bore in fact, is worthless. Dark, severly pitted, with no rifling in the last 6 inches of bore. I couldn't get a written return authorization. BE CAREFUL!!! My first online purchase of a gun, Will never do again!!and good luck
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 10/14/2002 at 19:43:10
Rebuttal: TWICE EMAILED CRAGER TO RETURN GUN IF HE WAS UNHAPPY. IM SORRY, I DONT HAVE ANYONE ON STAFF THAT STUDIED CALLIGRAPHY TO HAND ENGRAVE A RETURN AUTHORIZATION. AN EMAIL AUTHORIZING RETURN SHOULD SUFFICE. BETTER NOT MAKE ANYMORE PURCHASES ONLINE, THE TEARS WILL SHORTOUT THE KEYBOARD.
Buyer: zipster223 (User Rating) Rating: Negative When: 06/25/2001 at 13:13:15
Auction: 1455945
Comments: Seller closed the auction early and I did not get to purchase the product. I called him and he stated that he sold the item at a show he went to the prior week. He did not even offer to make it right. Why bother with the auction then? THANKS A LOT. I will take my business else where.
Rebuttal left by: s.luke When: 06/25/2001 at 22:21:47
Rebuttal: ACTUALLY! Zipper called me at 08:30 asking about the sight. I said I was sorry, I had sold it the day before and would immediately end auction. He said OK!, He then placed 3 bids about a minute apart at 10:15, I dont know what this bedwetter is trying to prove, I cant order New used items.

Here are his neutrals to whom ever wishes to view them
http://www.auctionarms.com/Help/feedback/DisplayFeedback.cfm?Evaluee=205251.0&Rating=Neutral

Auction arms negative feedback
http://www.auctionarms.com/Help/feedback/DisplayFeedback.cfm?Evaluee=205251.0&Rating=Negative

Ebay feed back
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...&userid=s.luke&iid=-1&de=off&items=200&page=1

 

[Gunner3456]

Nice guy. What a jerk. You can't work with this guy.

PP, I still say this is the buyer's FFL - he chose him. You did your part. I'd let them work it out but help anyway I could by providing a local FFL to receive and ship right back.

I've changed my mind. I wouldn't pay any shipping but I suppose I'd pay my FFL for his trouble to keep him from getting ripped too.

To heck with this guy.

$.02

 

[Mutoman]

Good stuff, better than the last ten movies I've watched.

 

[The B]

I don't want to take sides but I personally wouldn't accept a gun back that was out of my custody, too many variables to consider.

ditto.. the guy accepted the firearm from a non-ffl- he violated his own policy. the OP has absolutely no obligation to make any attempt to follow those rules- it's up to the shop to enforce them. if the shop didn't want the gun, they should have done their homework and made sure everything was in compliance with their policy- both when sending the FFL and then again when receiving the firearm.

OP- you really need to wash your hands of this. don't take back a firearm that's been out of your posession and in the posession of someone who's got a big grudge against you for three weeks. you have the money, he has the gun, call it a day. let the ATF tell the gun shop to transfer it to your customer- that's the shop's only option at this point. which will be nice to see, considering his totally unprofessional and absurd posts.

 

[soberups]

Firstly, I am the so-called Jerk FFL by the self proclaimed unlicensed gun dealer "penguin"..... our store policy has always been not to accept firearms from non-licensee's for this exact reason. I will not be out $30.00 to return the gun to a non FFL

Thirty dollars.

When you cut thru all the BS it boils down to this; the FFL is willing to get into a huge pissing match, screw his own customer over, and hold onto a gun for three weeks.....over thirty dollars

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that Sams shooters emporium is completely correct in his interpretation of the law...it is still a piss-poor business practice to throw a tantrum and post inflammatory and verbally abusive posts on an internet forum over a $30 misunderstanding.

Its pretty clear who the adult is in all of this.

 

[ORBrit]

We as a community get a good sense of a member's character by the tone and nature of their posts. Those of us who have dealt with PbP or know him through his business or socially know him to be consistent with his history here. He's a very honest (sometimes too honest!) guy and I don't think any post of his on here will contradict that.

The blatant lies and accusations of the AZ FFL are also consistent with their rude and derogatory tone used on their negative feedback posts listed above.

I guess we all know who to believe, and support.

PbP, I respect your desire to see this through for the buyer, but in the end, it was the buyer's mistake to choose this FFL.

 

[MarkSBG]

This guy is a real class act. I guess years of treating people poorly has made him overly sensative. Someone needs a nap and a bottle.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

In all honesty the ATF is very helpful with FFLs. And every time i called them before betting my FFL they were very nice, professional, and helpful. Just because they are involved does not mean this will get nasty. Most likely they will return the firearm. they may even allow a non 4473 transfer back. You never know. Waiting to hear from them will be the hardest part.

My experience with the ATF has been the same as yours. My feeling was just that because there may be accusations of impropriety that it may take a while to just filter though the whole thing.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

but after speaking to my attorney, showing him the posts on this board, and playing some very threatening voice messages from Sam's today I have been advised to not accept return shipment of this gun at this time. My attorney is checking to make sure the information the local ATF provided (saying I was within the law to ship the gun to Sam's) and if it is he says I should now let the situation be handled locally and pursue other actions towards Sam's if needed. He says there is no way I can be expected to believe this guy will act in good faith based on his actions today.

The guy even had the poor judgement to threaten to turn the gun over as a stolen gun to the local authorities in a voice mail. My attorney says that would constitute a false police report since his own store policy does not supersede the state and federal laws. If he did not want to accept from a non-FFL then it was his responsibility to make sure I was one before sending me his FFL information and threatening to punish me now for his own error places him in a very sticky situation. Especially when he lets himself be recorded admitting to his ill conceived intentions.

 

[NK777]

but after speaking to my attorney, showing him the posts on this board, and playing some very threatening voice messages from Sam's today I have been advised to not accept return shipment of this gun at this time. My attorney is checking to make sure the information the local ATF provided (saying I was within the law to ship the gun to Sam's) and if it is he says I should now let the situation be handled locally and pursue other actions towards Sam's if needed.

The guy even had the poor judgement to threaten to turn the gun over as a stolen gun to the local authorities in a voice mail. My attorney says that would constitute a false police report since his own store policy does not supersede the state and federal laws. If he did not want to accept from a non-FFL then it was his responsibility to make sure I was one before sending me his FFL information and threatening to punish me now for his own error places him in a very sticky situation. Especially when he lets himself be recorded admitting to his ill conceived intentions.

I believe your attorney is giving you sound advice. As I stated earlier in this thread I smell a monkey here attempting to do monkey business. Did it ever occur to you that this "Sam Shooting Emporiom" is not a legitemate business? I do hope you went online a verified his FFL before shipping the firearm.

I have sold and shipped a gun this way once myself. It went smoothly in my case but still I'll never do it again. It was a PITA and cost entirely to much time and money to ship it out. I used UPS overnight air which was seriously expensive and the hub was more then a little out of my way since I live out in the sticks.

Nope I'll stick to FTF sales from now on.