Nightmare firearms sale and jerk FFL

[Achilles the Runner]

...I am the...Jerk FFL by the self proclaimed unlicensed gun dealer "penguin". ... He was informed that we only acceopt firearms from licensed FFL's which he assured us he was.

Can you prove this statement? Penguin says he has the emails proving that he did not make that claim. And why should he make that claim? So if this is true, why did you accept the package and not simply RTS? Federal law allows you to reject a shipment anytime you wish.

We cannot return a firearm to a non-licensee unless, "it was sent for repair or refinishing". It was not.

Balderdash! You can legally return a gun to whoever ships it to you unless he's a known felon. Or is this another store policy?

We are Title 1, Class 2 and class 3 as well as class 72. I know the law and besides knowing the law, our store policy has always been not to accept firearms from non-licensee's.

You do not know the law, and you have repeatedly demonstrated it and in what you've told Penguin and what you've said here! Besides, what do you mean that he "foxtrotted" your employee?

I will not be out $30.00 to return the gun to a non FFL.

You sound completely unreasonable here. Why don't you just violate store policy and transfer the gun, and remember, we're all (or should be) commonly opposed to all these self-serving and bureaucratic rules.

So, again, just transfer the thing and let it be done. Don't be bull headed.

 

[OcelotZ3]

Don't know about "Mohavesam", but others have had problems with him on AuctionArms.

Also, he actually ran for Mayor of Lake Havasu City in 2006, if you can believe it.

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You'd think someone with "30 years gun expertise" would know the laws better...

Also, check out this "Browning Hi-Point" on his site. It just happened to be the first handgun I looked at on-line, and needless to say the accuracy of the ad is lacking:

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[Achilles the Runner]

Hello, "SAM'S SHOOTERS EMPORIUM" ...you have some nice stuff, and pretty good prices in your online store. ... You will never see a dollar of my money.

Hey, it's possible this was all a misunderstanding. Like I said, above, we all ought to be on the same side. Let there be an apology and put the matter to rest. Unless Sam is out in the mountains shooting deer and bear with the Anaconda, it shouldn't be that difficult to resolve!

 

[orygun]

without thinking of craigslist's Rant and Rave section. What a pissing match this has become. And right now that's all it is, a pissing match.
Far too much negativity and absolutely nothing good will come out of it..... especially for the FFL who identified himself to us. Not a good way to win over potential customers.

Playboy, if you are within the law and you got your money, let the buyer deal with the jerk FFL and let it go. You'll feel a lot better.

 

[davel686]

I just wounder how on the up and up this sam guy is.
I have sold and shipped 4 hand guns to FFL dealers in AZ in the last year and all they asked was that i send a copy of my drivers lic. front and back along with a sales receipt to the buyer.
I also checked the laws on a non FFL person shipping a hand gun and found the same info that PP found.
as long as I shipped to a FFL dealer there was no problem.
time to move on sam.

 

[SonicBlue03]

I'm sad I missed this thread. Glad it has a correct ending.

Whomever bought the gun might want to re-think who he buys things from. Sometimes it's worth driving further to find someone worthy of your patronage.

 

[Achilles the Runner]

Well, I haven't read anything about it being resolved, but it's not the seller's fault. It appears to be Slick Sam's Sure As Sh-- Shooting Emporium, where everything's at a deadlock over a store policy viz an actual federal law. The store manager can resolve it because it's a policy, but has not yet done so. As it stands, the seller should take his money and go his way and leave it to the buyer and Sam's to work out. The seller has the money and no motive, nor obgation, to do anything further. The transferer has nowhere else to send the gun and it isn't his property, and the buyer wants his property, which the transferer has in his possession, but won't transfer.

The only workable solution is for Sam to transfer the gun.

 

[JAFO]

Well, I haven't read anything about it being resolved, but it's not the seller's fault.

It was resolved on page 14.


It is not Sam's fault for having this policy. There are many FFLs that have the same policy of not accepting shipments from non-FFLs. That is their perogative. The blame lies squarely on the buyer for not making sure his FFL would accept a shipment from a non-FFL. I have the feeling there is a little more to the story than has been reported to us. The buyer probably assumed the seller was an FFL and told Sam's this. That is my wild guess.

Sam's f-up was acting in the manner he did. Showing your @ss is not the way to win customers.

Either way, as a buyer, you need to make sure your transfer dealer will accept a shipment from a non-FFL or arrange to have the person you are buying from have an FFL send it. It is often only another $20 or so since an FFL can ship using USPS. It's as easy as having the seller check with an FFL in his area to find out if they will ship it and how much for transfer/shipping. In this case the seller did not want to ship that way so the buyer would have just not been able to make the purchase or he would have had to find an FFL who would accept a non-FFL shipment.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The buyer probably assumed the seller was an FFL and told Sam's this. That is my wild guess.

Your wild guess would be wrong. The buyer was very aware of the fact I was a private seller. A very lengthy e-mail conversation detailed this fact when he asked why shipping was so expensive.

 

[LogicBomb]

PP I would deal with you anyday, matter in fact I prolly be adding a new baby to the family soon and I will be looking at your stuff closely

 

[clearconscience]

Hey PBP I'm sure glad everything worked out. It's too bad the buyer had to wait so long to meet his new baby.

I sold a gun through gunbroker and shipped my black rifle to another state. And the buyer is responsible for making all contacts and making sure all is right, even though I called the FFL and told him I was shipping the gun myself. Had no issues.

This FFL just sounds like a jerk who wanted to throw his weight around.
I'm glad to didn't have to get that gun back who knows what it had done to it.

Dealing with firearms sales is usually stressful enough, we don't need people like this making it harder. Causing more problems.

Good luck in the future and if I ever find some money I would buy from you for sure.

Thanks for the post.

 

[JAFO]

Your wild guess would be wrong. The buyer was very aware of the fact I was a private seller. A very lengthy e-mail conversation detailed this fact when he asked why shipping was so expensive.

And that is even worse if he told the dealer you were an FFL.

 

[ZeroRing]

Yeah, I almost always lose money when I sell a gun I tire of...I just consider the lost money a rental fee for the time I had the gun.

I guess I know now who to look to first for that must have item for really cheap!!

Took me a while to get through all the pages of this thread but I too am glad to see that it all worked out in the end. The one thing I AM curious about is what condition the item was in when the buyer did eventually pick it up? Hopefully it was still in it's packaging and as good as when it was originally shipped.

 

[fingolfen]

Completely missed this one... PbP - you deserve a beer for handling this professionally - my treat! LMK when you want to collect - I work in Hillsboro.