Night Vision

[unionguy]

do folks have a good recommendation on 'basic night vision'? I'm looking for something that would allow me to see out to 100M with enough clarity for defensive purposes. Someting that won't break at first hard use either. Is Gen I sufficient these days or do I need Gen 2? GEn 3 is well beyond me. Any brand or product recommendations?

thanks

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[CamoDeafie]

Gen 1 can be fooled by the various new hunting camos and the digital camos.... well; Russian/Chinese Gen-1s

Gen 2 is quite a bit better and more clear.... and should be pretty good for you...especially the ex-Military versions..or those built to exceed military specifications... I can't recommend brands off the top of my head; as I don't own one.... (yet.)

 

[Decker]

Bump for info too

 

[erudne]

18 years ago I reviewed a Gen 2 Russian rig, it would not work for IFOF even at close range (50 yards) under a full moon, you could engage the target at that range, even out to 80 yards but past that, nothing. All that tech has changed for the better.
I like FLIR over IR, for personal reasons
the price is dropping.
You will not get IFOF but you get see through ability, see through smoke, fog, windows, ID heat sources like car engines, cigarette smoke, all that stuff that can be very useful in urban/rural environments. The newer units use common (not cheap) batteries w/instant turn-on and longer life, plug into lap-tops.
I bought into the tech @3800 and was lucky to get the trade in for a higher level of tech for another $400, a palm sized unit that is also equipped with adjustable, multi-color 'hash tags'.
I use it to view pregnant cows, we breed em to drop in February (the driest month) to avoid pneumonia. In mid winter, with a FLIR, a sharp eye, and a bit of experience a viewer can ID which cow is due to deliver right down to the 20 minute time line by the heat sig.
Beats getting out of the truck 20 times a night!

 

[CamoDeafie]

FLIR is the same as IR.

now.... Starlight/Cat-eye versus Thermal versus IR are all different...

FLIR is a term for "Forward Looking Infra Red"...which is just IR set to look forward...was first mass-used on AH-64A Apaches and current technology on drones and helicopters..... as opposed to Side Looking and Down Looking.

older IR systems were basically IR wavelength spotlights and will illuminate anything that glows under IR spectrum...

newer Thermal systems use a passive form instead of active form of infrared, in which it seeks something giving off IR radiation... which is heat.

CatEye/Starlight basically amplify the ambient light to illuminate the environment in your scope or goggles..and can be really bad for you if the bad guys decide to shine a light into your goggles/scope or use a flash-bang.

 

[erudne]

In English?

 

[CamoDeafie]

lol.

FLIR= Forward Looking Infra-Red.

same as Passive IR.

Passive IR looks for heat/IR radiating from things...also known as Thermal vision.

Active IR (Older night vision on tanks and similar equipment), sends out a spotlight in IR wavelength; things give out IR signatures according to how reflective to IR waves they are...
EDIT: cheap FLIR systems work on the above principle rather than the Passive IR system.

Cat Eye/Starlight basically draw on the ambient visible light to "brighten" up the area you're looking at through a scope or goggles; it is what the Fiber Optic sights on guns and such use without batteries (new tech) but older tech used batteries and external power to increase the ambient light into your eye from the environment; same basic method that cats use for "night vision". Easily countered by shining bright lights into the scope or general direction or using a flash bang.

 

[erudne]

Let me know if you have tech to 'view" I'm a user, not a trader.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I was a student at an Institution for Technology on the East Coast several years ago, and no its not MIT..... had friends who worked on the optics for stuff like the Stryker vehicles and for lab research...
I however, don't know which brand is recommended, but just know that you need something along the lines of a Passive/Active semi-autonomous system that would enable you to sharpen the images by turning on the Active phase, though that would make you stand out like a beacon in a Passive system.

 

[CamoDeafie]

the vast majority of night vision devices/optics operate on the "Starlight"/Cat Eye principle of intensifying ambient light to give you the picture of the environment...this usually have a green filter somewhere in it to give you the classic green screen shots;

there are very few true IR scopes for rifles, most of the active IR systems are mounted to vehicles, Passive IR systems, well. the most common one is the motion detectors in most stores and bathrooms that simply turns on the lights when it detects the heat of a person.. similar technology used in "handheld FLIR" systems, but with an optical element for you to see on the screen.

for total darkness; many of the high quality Night Vision scopes and goggles comes with an Infra Red Illuminator that basically give you an Active IR system; although enemies could in theory find you.... its why you can sometimes see a laser beam or similar when you look at some footage of night operations with such technology

 

[erudne]

CD
Thanks for that info; I hope everyone that reads what you posted Keeps it buried in their heads and never disseminates it to other folks, cause that might be wrong somehow.

 

[erudne]

CD
I hope ypu have something better to shield you tan I do. Maybe it's time to spin that die?

 

[U201491]

Good info on night vision.
And why war is not fun anymore.


http://www.northwestfirearms.com/showthread.php?p=927220

Things most of you already know. Some new kinks.

And here also.
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/showthread.php?p=942488

All the skills won't help if you cannot beat this one tool.
_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !

 

[CamoDeafie]

scorched earth.

make the ambient temperatures 100+ degrees and humans can hide pretty easily in it.

also; use insulated winter parkas with a cooling vest underneath, maybe an entire suit of coolant (gel ice packs make for nice improvised cooling agents) and wear lined clothing thats meant for cold temperatures in the summer heat; that would reduce your heat signature and still enable you to be mobile.

EDIT: you will note that the majority of the use of this is at night when the ground is always cooler than the person.......another trick I have heard of...but not yet seen...is burying yourself in the ground, say maybe a tunnel or something similar....or a bunker of sort with very small slits that's covered by blankets or similar to keep the ambient temperatures lower...you also note that the military small weapon optics haven't penetrated stone walls and such; though satellite and heavy duty X-ray systems will find you. (to block X-rays; simply have sufficiently thick blankets of lead.)

EDIT #2 for you tinfoil hat wearing guys....

why does the US forest service have AH-1 Cobras in service??


because they KNOW preppers and such will bug out into the forests and thus have an excuse to use a fast platform with thermal vision systems to find you guys. it is of interest that it has a civilian looking FLIR turret on the nose rather than the nose cone turret used on the AH-1 S, T, W, Z, F models.

 

[Brutus57]

scorched earth.

make the ambient temperatures 100+ degrees and humans can hide pretty easily in it.

also; use insulated winter parkas with a cooling vest underneath, maybe an entire suit of coolant (gel ice packs make for nice improvised cooling agents) and wear lined clothing thats meant for cold temperatures in the summer heat; that would reduce your heat signature and still enable you to be mobile.

EDIT: you will note that the majority of the use of this is at night when the ground is always cooler than the person.......another trick I have heard of...but not yet seen...is burying yourself in the ground, say maybe a tunnel or something similar....or a bunker of sort with very small slits that's covered by blankets or similar to keep the ambient temperatures lower...you also note that the military small weapon optics haven't penetrated stone walls and such; though satellite and heavy duty X-ray systems will find you. (to block X-rays; simply have sufficiently thick blankets of lead.)

EDIT #2 for you tinfoil hat wearing guys....

why does the US forest service have AH-1 Cobras in service??


because they KNOW preppers and such will bug out into the forests and thus have an excuse to use a fast platform with thermal vision systems to find you guys. it is of interest that it has a civilian looking FLIR turret on the nose rather than the nose cone turret used on the AH-1 S, T, W, Z, F models.

I am sure the USFS company line is that the FLIR is good for hot spots ID in fires assumed to be out or under control. I have also heard that weed plants really stand out differently in IR than native trees and bushes.

Brutus Out

 

[CamoDeafie]

Brutus; that IS the official line; that these Cobras are for firewatch missions; as scouts to look for potential hot spots.....

 

[Navman]

No offense to the Techo night vision Geeks, But ya lost me somewhere between something this and that.

My Wife and I often travel by boat at night on the Columbia River and it would really be helpful to get some links for the "best bang for the buck" binoculars as we have no clue

 

[Brutus57]

Brutus; that IS the official line; that these Cobras are for firewatch missions; as scouts to look for potential hot spots.....

My question is as BROKE as the USFS claims to be how can they afford Cobras and what it cost to keep them flying. Oh yeah, anything to keep us safe....that's why Yosemite is up in flames...

Brutus Out

 

[CamoDeafie]

according to wikipedia; these fire snakes were purchased 10 years ago.... probably grounded or leased out to someone else..

 

[U201491]

No offense to the Techo night vision Geeks, But ya lost me somewhere between something this and that.

My Wife and I often travel by boat at night on the Columbia River and it would really be helpful to get some links for the "best bang for the buck" binoculars as we have no clue

Sent you a pm

_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !