Washington NICS Denial?

MrRob96 · Jul 14, 2017

In my past 20 purchases requiring NICS checks in the state of Washington, I got a delay about 50% of the time. I kicked around the idea of a UPIN, but a few FFLs told me not to waste my time trying to get one. OK, fine.

Then today I go into my LGS on a whim, see a handgun I thought was out of production but has come back it seems. 0.0 it's my lucky day. Start the paperwork, 4473, yada yada yada... NICS is taking a while as usual.

...denied.

W T F. over.

So what in the bubblegum is happening here. I have no criminal record, ever. I don't have backdue child support, I purchased another handgun about 3 weeks ago without issue, not even a delay. In that time I don't recall being arrested or doing anything that may cause me to be a "wanted bad guy."

Yet that denial definitely makes me feel like a criminal.

My question though is, is there a problem, legally, trying to make another purchase through NICS? I saw a few forum posts on the webbernetz that said sometimes LGS' just fat finger things, or other types of problems come up.

Is there any issue with trying another NICS transaction or should I simply go through the STUPID long appeals process?

old11bravo · Jul 15, 2017

I would definitely attempt to submit another 4473. For one, if you know it's a mistake, they have no basis to say you're attempting to skirt the system. You're a law abiding citizen and you have rights! Two, if it was an LGS employee fat finger mistake, why would you go through all the red tape of appeals to find out that's what the issue was. Thirdly, if the mistake is bigger and being made at NICS approval level, it will probably deny you again and at least then you would know who you need to take issue with.

I will add the caveat that I'm not a lawyer and I don't purport to be one, thus this is not legal advice and shouldn't be misconstrued as such. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night....

Good luck brother. I'll be curious to know how it turns out. Please update the thread when you have new information.

IronMonster · Jul 15, 2017

If you are not a prohibited person there is Nothing wrong with just submitting a second 4473. The rules are that they are suppose to purge any info in the system every 30 days so if you do a second one in a month it might get flagged as a previous deny but that might work in your favor, the second person might dig in and actually do the footwork.

When a check is performed and there is any sort of a flag and the person conducting the check does not feel like doing the foot work they can simply deny the purchase. Its the safest and easiest thing for them to do and there is no recourse against them for doing it.

It can take a year or better to get an appeal sorted out, I have appealed several denied transactions and all have turned out in my favor but it takes time and is a pain the the rear.

I have a signed letter from the FBI from an appeal that states clear as day that I am NOT a prohibited person... After I got that letter the FBI denied me several more times.

Now that I am in Idaho and have an enhanced carry card I no longer have to do NICS checks. You still fill out the 4473 but its not called in. I simply walk out with my stuff in a few minutes.

fredball · Jul 15, 2017

Have you purchased Marijuana with your CREDIT CARD ? that will kick you off the good guy list for sure

DID YOUR FFL SUBMIT THE INFO FROM YOUR 4473 CORRECT?

MAYBE IT"S TIME FOR THAT UPIN

IDAHO IS LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE REST OF AMERICA

MrRob96 · Jul 15, 2017

No, I've never purchased marijuana with a credit card. I recently had my credit card number stolen and charged at a few locations fraudulently. I filed a fraud claim with my bank, but I checked my credit report and nothing is there.

Perhaps my bank placed a fraud alert attached to my SSN? It is a stretch and there is nothing to make a person "prohibited" on your credit report AFAIK.

Yeah in Texas this would have been a non-issue. Place CHL on the desk during 4473 process, done.

WALawyer · Jul 16, 2017

It's probably just an errant denial, it happens all the time. You're not prohibited from initiating another transaction, but I will say that if you were denied on the spot, then your name is likely in the NICS Index, which means you'll continue to be automatically denied. If you were delayed first and then denied, then it's probably just a mistake. If it happens again, you will require professional help. DO NOT file an appeal. I can occasionally fix these errant denials within a week or two through my NICS contact, but not if an appeal has already been initiated.

What you should do, though, is request the reason for the denial through NICS. Go to their website, find the NICS appeal form, make sure you check the box at the top that says "I want to know the reason for my denial" and fill out the rest of the form. You'll receive a response within 5-10 business days.

I've personally heard of two distinct situations. One where an individual was denied because another individual in another state with the same first and last name (but not middle name) and date of birth had a felony record. Another where an individual was denied because a person in another state with the exact same full name and date of birth was adjudicated as a mental defective. There are a variety of reasons why this could happen, which is why requesting the reason is crucial.

Buying marijuana with a credit card won't get you flagged (yet).

One thing that stands out to me is that if you're from Texas and if you had any type of criminal history there (even if you think you don't because you were a juvenile, or you received an adjudication withheld or it's been sealed/expunged/whatever), that may be the reason for the denial.

DONOTBUGME · Jul 16, 2017

Recreational shops are all cash. You can't use credit and the only debit is an atm.

MrRob96 · Jul 16, 2017

Hi WALawyer,

Thank you for the info. I did request the reason for my denial. As I stated, I usually receive delays followed by a proceed (10 times out of 20 approximately). This time I received a denial before I left the shop. I believe it's errant, almost as if the researcher, assuming actual people do the research, decided to hand a denial because it was quicker and easier than thoroughly checking records.

I will try initiating another NICS transaction, and if I'm denied once more I'll be contacting you.

I don't have a criminal record in any state at any age. I'm from California and moved from that state because of it's draconian gun measures. I do have a relatively common first and last name so that may be what catches me up with NICS transactions. My middle name is decidedly uncommon due to a familial misspelling that has become tradition.

Thanks again.

MrRob96 · Jul 21, 2017

As an update, I went and made another purchase. This time the NICS research was done in nearly record time and I got a proceed. This must have been an errant denial.

Now I have a pretty new Kimber camp guard 10. Damn shame the thing had a malfunction every other round for 50 rounds. That's another thread altogether.

old11bravo · Jul 21, 2017

Glad to hear you got the proceed that you so deserved. Sorry to hear about the Kimber. I knew there was a reason I don't own a Kimber. Hopefully a little more break in time and lubrication is all it will need. Best o' luck!!

11B