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Newbies: Do your own homework!

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by brandnew, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. brandnew

    brandnew PNW Member

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    I've been trying to find the law in the RCW that says that a citizen of the US who is a new resident to Washington must wait 90 days before purchasing a firearm from an FFL. I've not had any luck finding it myself by searching the RCW, and FFL dealers don't seem to know where I can find that code, just that it exists.

    So I happened to be driving past a police station and I thought maybe I'll stop in and see if they knew. They took a while and in the mean time I was chatting with the friendly officer working the front desk. At some point I brought up Federal law banning private sales between residents of different states without the use of an FFL as a facilitator (for background check).

    She began to tell me that no such law exists and she can as a citizen sell to "anybody I want, anywhere, without an FFL involved". I clarified to make sure she was talking about selling to a resident of another state, and she said the exact same thing. I assured her that I had in fact read the code multiple times the previous day and verified this with a community of people who cite the codes of state and federal laws to answer questions.

    Now I'm not writing this post to encourage the notion that police officers believe themselves to be above the law, or that they're incompetent in any way. But this experience was, for me, an excellent education of the fact that just because somebody enforces the law, doesn't know they remember every law or have even read them all. Similarly, just because somebody in a forum answers your question doesn't mean they are right. Make sure you follow the law to the source (ATF website, RCW website, etc), read the law for yourself and make sure you understand it.

    I think that most of the more experienced individuals in the forum already know what I'm talking about, and have made such comments in the past but heads up for you new guys. DO YOUR HOMEWORK, because not knowing, or even saying that "A police officer told me that..." won't do much good for you after the fact.

    Here's a fairly good list of firearm laws on the ATF's website:
    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

    Though you may not easily find what you're looking for, here's the RCW's:
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2009
  2. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    Good points all. Especially here on the interweb. EVERYONE should do their best to verify any "advice" given (especially when it involves "legal" matters) whether here or anywhere else on the 'net with multiple sources, preferably from the governmental/legal "source" itself.

    That goes for "legal" matters as well as "opinions" on this or that product. Check multiple places and look for confirmation or, dare I say it, "consensus" on the question you may have. :thumbup:
     
  3. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Have never heard of such a thing, have a feeling that it falls in the 'urban legend' category.

    Have talked with the Wa State Dept. of Lic. section that handles firearms lic. within the state, and there's no such law, rule etc.
     
  4. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Important to consider a source's area of expertise, too. Local police aren't usually engaged in the business of enforcing federal interstate law, so may not be adequately informed on those matters...

    I do remember something about "being a resident for ______ (some time frame)_____ where was that? Is it on the CPL application? :huh:
     
  5. brandnew

    brandnew PNW Member

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    Well I just found the RCW code spelling it out finally. Please refer to 9.41.090, Dealer deliveries regulated — Hold on delivery:

    (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until:

    (c) Five business days, meaning days on which state offices are open, have elapsed from the time of receipt of the application for the purchase thereof as provided herein by the chief of police or sheriff designated in subsection (5) of this section, and, when delivered, the pistol shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded. However, if the purchaser does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the waiting period under this subsection (1)(c) shall be up to sixty days.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.090

    I added the bold myself to make it easy to find there. So it sounds like it's legal for them to sell one to me but they have to put it on hold for 60 days.

    Once again, "talking with somebody from a license dept." does give you any edge on the truth. People are unreliable and inaccurate. The biggest reason that I wanted to find this information is because I had heard that the law (whatever it was) did not apply to private sales. Now, having found this, I know that I as a new resident can purchase private party with no issues.

    Always do your homework!
     
  6. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    ...and read carefully.:) Note that the 90 day residency applies IF the buyer does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or ID card.

    Maybe it's on the purchase form? I know I've seen this someplace other than online/RCW's. Good post.
     
  7. brandnew

    brandnew PNW Member

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    I'm pretty sure I'm reading this correctly, but maybe I'm going crazy... here's the quote and I'm going to bold parts for emphasis it so it's easier to read...

    "However, if the purchaser does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days..."

    In other words, you just have a waiting period of 60 days if EITHER of the following apply:
    B. You do not have a valid WA drivers license or state identification card
    A. Have not been a resident for 90 consecutive days

    Can anybody verify that I'm not crazy here? That is what it's saying right?
     
  8. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Right, in other words, you need one of the three to skip the 60-day wait.
     
  9. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Yep, that's the way I read it. If you don't have a valid Lic. or ID card, you have to do the waiting thing...
     
  10. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    When I was an LEO I always said "If you want to know the law, ask a lawyer." It was not my job to know every single law pertaining to individual behavior. I just had to do as told by my superios and know the basics laws of civil behavior. :)
     
  11. JumpWing

    JumpWing NK WA Member

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    That's as true as it gets.

    For any non-LEO, try reading through just the traffic codes for your county/city and you'll very quickly understand why cops don't have all laws and their current interpretations memorized.
     
  12. brandnew

    brandnew PNW Member

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    Well I've got a valid WA drivers license and I am definitely a resident of this state as this is where all my bills are, car is registered to and live, have health insurance in, am employed in, but I haven't lived here for more than 90 days.

    I've clarified and clarified my position with every FFL I have spoken to, and all of them claim an RCW law prohibits them from selling to me because of a 90 day rule.

    If the law I cited is not the reason, can anybody find the one in question?
     
  13. ZeroRing

    ZeroRing 26th District, WA Active Member

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    Perhaps they have some specific knowledge that goes beyond the RCW that's been discussed here? Maybe point out what "our" interpretation of the RCW is to them and then ask what specific OTHER regulation that are using as the basis for their 90 day "rule"? :huh:

    I'd be interested in their response as well. :cool:
     
  14. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Check state laws regarding residency. Some states require you to live inside the state for 60-90 days before you are a resident. If that is true in WA you would need to live there for 90 days before buying a gun regardless of any other laws.
     
  15. Spartan117

    Spartan117 Vancouver, WA New Member

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    I agree with asking a lawyer also, except they will have to research it too. Even the best officer will not know every law. They will however have the basics down cold and have a great way to research the law you ask.

    This website provides a search function for the RCW's/WAC's:

    http://www.mrsc.org/

    Move the cursor down to the "Legal Resources" and then drop down to "RCW/WAC" and search away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
  16. Spartan117

    Spartan117 Vancouver, WA New Member

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    I read it as You have a 60 day waiting period if either one of those apply.

    So, start at the beginning:
    1) Do you have a valid driver's license? (Yes. Go to the next qualification.)

    2) Do you have a state identification card? (This one doesn't apply for you, since you have a driver's license. Go to the last qualification.)

    3) Have you been a resident for 90 consecutive days? (NOPE, now you have to wait 60 days)

    You have to satisfy all of the three in order to skip the 60 days.
     
  17. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Had this been the case the wording would have been "and" instead of, "or".

    The statute says what it means- to avoid the 60 day wait you need
    a valid Wa drivers license or
    a valid state ID or
    have been a resident of Wa for 90+ days.

    It says what it means, there is no trick wording there.
     
  18. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm seems I remember something about urban legend.........

    They got it from someone, that told that person, because their brother's, friend's uncle told them.....
     
  19. JumpWing

    JumpWing NK WA Member

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    Hey! My brother's cousin's uncle's next-door-neighbor's paperboy's dog used to run by the house of this one guy who almost joined the Marines with this guy who's aunt lived in the same apartment building as an ex-CIA-SWAT-SEAL-RECON-SNIPER-BLACKOPS-janitor who KNOWS what he's talking about.
     
  20. Spartan117

    Spartan117 Vancouver, WA New Member

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    Hey I know that guy too! I used to work with this guy who lived near him. ;)

    Thanks for the explanation.